KK: Shares Dr Cardillo clinical success

Hopefully, this will put some of you who are worried about covid at ease. There is an easy, available cure.

OP didn’t share what I wrote on my post:

Dr Cardillo says you must use zinc with hydroxychloroquine, or else by itself, hydroxychloroquine is not very effective. Here’s a transcription of his interview.

“What we’re finding clinically with our patients, is that it really only works in conjunction with zinc.
So the hydroxychloroquine opens the zinc channel. Zinc goes into the cell. It then blocks replication of the cellular machinery.
So it has to be used in conjunction with zinc.
We are seeing some clinical responses in that regard.
There are people that take it regularly for other disease processes. We have to be cautious and mindful that we don’t prescribe it for patients who are well. It really should be reserved for people who are really sick, in the hospital, or at home very sick, that need that medication.
Otherwise we are going to blow through our supply for the patient who takes it regularly for other disease processes.

Every patient I have prescribed it to, has been very very ill. And within 8-12 hours, they were basically symptom free. So, clinically I am seeing a resolution that mirrors what we saw in the French study and some of the other studies worldwide.
But what I am seeing is that people are taking it alone by itself. It’s not having efficacy.”

AHT: NN Is DJT part of the Illuminati Elite?

June 10, 2020 1:45pm: So is Donald Trump a member of the Illuminati elite in the eyes of conspiracy theorists?

The Illuminati conspiracy theory claims it is a secret society that actually runs all global governments from behind the scenes and is slowly implementing a so-called New World order (NWO), that will culminate in a global leadership.

The theory varies in extremities from the above at the least, to the Illuminati being a highly Satanic cult that intends returning the devil to earth.

Before the Presidency
Donald Trump was always basking in the glory of any kind of fame he could come across. Despite having a pretty substantial starting fund from his father, Donald has done a pretty good job of fooling the public into thinking he built his fortune for himself. A shocking number of people have no idea that the Donald actually started his lucrative career with almost a half a billion dollars. As anyone in the biz knows, it takes money to make money, and it’s really hard to make a fortune like Donald has without a pretty good amount to start on. Donald had the money to take some risks and weather them. Most folks starting out don’t have such luxuries.

Before Donald Trump’s extremely improbably presidential bid, he was a reality television star. The Apprentice worked, however, on his reputation. The idea was that he was to The Apprentice what someone like Keith Urban should be to American Idol. He was an authority on business, and that made his show successful. It took a mogul to make that model work, and Trump did. He is still riding that success today.

So, on our Illuminati checklist, let’s ask ourselves the magic question. Did Donald Trump have the kind of reach in the world to entertain an Illuminati invitation? Well, the answer to this one is 100% yes.

The Message
Why would the Illuminati be interested in Donald Trump? First of all, money. The Illuminati likes money and likes the power that it brings. Trump would not be the first time that the Illuminati backed someone just because of financial resources. Secondly, Trump has reached a lot of people, and never more than what he has done after his triumphant presidential win over Hillary Clinton. Trump’s Twitter account is legendary, even if the company Twitter rues the day it let him have one. He has huge influence and huge outreach. However, the Illuminati is more of a stickler for getting people before they accomplish such things. Donald Trump is very, very attractive to the Illuminati in his current position, but did he really strike them as having that kind of influence before?

https://commonsenseconspiracy.com/2018/10/is-donald-trump-illuminati/

Commenter 2: No he is not part of the illuminati. More Fake news and lies from the left. The liberals will do and say anything to turn people away from Trump. Just open your eyes to all they have done to him and others around him. Russia, Impeachment, Flynn, Covid19 dont think it was random either and who knows what else they have planned. If you cant see through the smoke screen yet then I feel sorry for you.

Commenter 3 @Commenter2: Q and the media have brainwashed people to believe in this duality. They are on the same page. It’s all a big show.

Commenter 2 @Commenter3: you’re wrong but I’m not going to argue with you.

Commenter 4: I’ve followed Q since the beginning. And although I’m hopeful, I trust no one 100%. There is that tiny niggling at the back of my mind that what you say might be true.
I however mostly believe that we’ve been given an opportunity…a small window if you will, before we will be given over to the NWO/Illuminati Globalists, because we didn’t care to resist them. Then we’ll deserve everything coming our way.

Commenter 3 @Commenter4: oh boy. I know how you you feel. All I know is that it really is us against the 1%. I’m not exactly sure what to do. But believing in false hopes is not any better. We have to unite. Sigh

me @Commenter4: I know of one person who is actively resisting and fighting against them. They are trying to discredit, ridicule, and shame him in any way possible.

Was Obama or Clinton ever treated this way? Nope!

His initials are DJT.

Trump 2020!

Commenter 4: You are right, and for the most part I do believe he is fighting the good fight. There are things I don’t understand because I know I don’t have all the information and it’s because of that I can’t trust 100%. But it’s a tiny % of “don’t know”.
I pray for President Trump daily and it’s true, no one has ever been treated this way and it’s got to say something! It’s quite appalling what Dems & media are doing.

Commenter 5: Trump is in the club just as much as the rest are ….they didn’t make to where they are …they were chosen
Trump is the lesser of the evil but I’m sure hes a deceiver..his time will come … all smoke in mirrors for the NWO roll oot

Commenter 6: Trump isn’t in with the elite and illuminati.

me @Commenter6: I agree with you. Trump certainly isn’t in the elite that wants mandated vaccinations, health record tracking implants, restrictions to travel/event without proven vaccination, a cashless society, reduced population, using kids for rape, torture and food, contact tracing, etc.

Trump is in an elite class: disciplined, successful, hardworking, an author, tv show attraction, a fighter. I could say more but then that would just result in people arguing with me.

If more people saw his good qualities for what they are, then they may even inspire to more like him.

Commenter 7: If he were part of it, they wouldn’t have tried to kill him 6 times already. They wouldn’t hate him, they would just normal level oppose him like they’ve done with every past Republican president. The Bush’s are free masons, I’m not sure about Reagan, but I don’t think so, but Carter, Clintons, and Oblather definitely were.

Commenter 8 @Commenter7: and another reason they hate him is that he knows how they operate which make them even more scared. God is in control🙏🏻.

Commenter 9:
– Trump admitting sexual assault.
– Trump charity fraud.
– Trump calls for nuclear proliferation.
– Trump calls for national stop and frisk.
– Trump violates trade embargo with Cuba.
– Trump sued over Trump U fraud..
– Trump bribes DA..
– Trump doesnt pay taxes for 20 years.
– Trump employs campaign manager involved in illegal corruption with Russia.
– Trump calls for ban of an entire religion from entering US.
– Trump lied about support for Iraq War over and over in debate.
– Trump in court for rape of a minor..
– Trump unaware of Russia’s Crimea occupation..
– Trump unaware of situation in Syria.
– Trump penalized for racist housing discrimination.
– Trump files for bankrupcy 6 times.
– Trump goes 0-3 in debates by showing scant knowledge of world politics.
– Trump slams people for being POWs..
– Trump calls Mexicans rapists..
– Trump questions judge’s integrity because of parent’s heritage.
– Trump deletes emails involved in casino scandal.
– Trump commits insurance fraud after florida hurricane.
– Trump has dozens of assault victims and witnesses come forward with allegations of abuse.
– Trump attacks former Ms America for being overweight.
– Trump tweets about sex tapes at 3am.
– Trump calls for US citizens to be sent to Gitmo.
– Trump calls for more extreme forms of torture to be used.
– Trump asks why cant we use our nukes if we have them.
– Trump calls for offensive bombing attack on sovereign nations because someone gave the middle finger.
– Trump calls to kill women and children of suspected terrorists.
– Trump says women should be punished for having abortions.
– Trump makes fun of disabled people.
– Trump calls for end of freedom of the press.
– Trump calls global warming a chinese hoax.
– Trump praises Putin and Kim Jong Un’s strong leadership.
– Trump openly admits to not paying his employees during debate.
– Trump calls Obama an illegitimate noncitizen hundreds of times over 7 years.
– Trump uses campaign donations to enrich his own businesses..
– Trump says Ted Cruz’s father involved in JFK assassination unironically citing National Enquirer.
– Trump says laziness is an inherent trait in black people.

I don’t get trump supporters

Commenter 10 @Commenter9: I used to think so 3 months ago as well but Covid nonsense pushed me down the rabbit hole. I hated him. Disgusted by him in every way. But I started to question the media. They flat out lied about everything Covid. I started to wonder. If they lied so much and so against whatever he did or said, something is worth investigation.

He was called a Xenophobic when he banned all the flights from and to China at the end of January, only allowing US residents back in.

I agreed with him on letting the states decide what’s best for their states on dealing with Covid. He also got more than enough ventilators for NY where the governor was asking for ridiculous numbers of them which later found, we didn’t need. He got the make-shift hospital beds arranged in a very short time and sent in the Navy Comfort Ship to NYC right away.

I admired his boldness about the HCQ as I was also listening to many doctors coming out to say they had high success rate with their patients and when the media tried to say the 70+ years old drug was dangerous, he came out saying that he had been taking it! So bold!!

I also liked that he was looking at other alternative treatments and not just parroting “Vaccines!! Vaccines!!” like others.

I totally agreed with him with defunding the corrupted WHO. I started to agree with him about China and bringing manufacturers back to the US.

I started to see why we needed the Walls when I watched an interview with the Operation Underground Railroad who has been rescuing children from child sex trafficking.

I have just finish the documentary “America : Freedom to Fascism” and it just got to me what MAGA means! He was talking about demolishing Federal Reserves and Federal Income Tax and that’s what it is! MAGA! Make America Great Again like how we were before the Feds and Income Tax that were established illegally in 1913.

Also, 3 big name/high profile sexual predators were arrested during his watch! Epstein, Weiner, and Weinstein!

I’m still going down the rabbit hole but from hating him 3 months ago, I kind of like the guy now.

Commenter 101: Also he is a rapist and pedo, this is only one of his ongoing trials:

https://www.scribd.com/document/352755967/Donald-Trump-Jeffrey-Epstein-Rape-Lawsuit-and-Affidavits

Commenter 102 @Commenter 101: Look closer. The charges against Trump were filed in CA, then dropped and then NY and dropped before he ever had a day in court to address the charges. All smoke and mirrors.

Commenter 101: look a the time frame mate

Commenter 102 @Commenter 101: I did, It does not change the fact they were charged and dismissed within a few months. They wanted to link him to Epstein.

Commenter 103 @Commenter102: The Trolls are not even American and they are bashing us for being truthful and honest so an arguments with low frequency emotional people is really empowering them.

Americans who are awake know what is going on here and they are getting the information based on the experience of living here but others are getting Fake news. News that incites fear and violence is fake. News that offers good solutions to problems is real.

The mainstream media uses hypnosis in the background and some people are immune to the manipulation and control but others are susceptible to it. My sister is easily hypnotized called the somnambulistic state. I am in a higher frequency that is unconditional love as an emotion and I am immune to this hypnosis. The ones who are being mind controlled are very paranoid and attack those who are awake.

The truth is coming out and we see the karma in action unfolding. What goes around comes around and the justice from the universe is swift this year. I keep telling people to stop the attacks because the karma is coming. Ouch if we don’t love humanity.

Commenter 101 @Commenter103:  im addicted to reading all my life, I really appreciate not only gaining a knowledge but also learning process, merging with it is ultimate goal, im humbly saying i can sense it, but cannot penetrate it.. not as close to understanding it as the author of this words tho..

Commenter 103 @Commenter101: Reading is really a wonderful thing. I have been able to read more during this pandemic if there can be positives that we can learn from these times. I like science fiction. Like Lord Valentine’s Castle Trilogy. I have not read as much as I would have liked but I hope to write a science fiction book one day based on truth. Like The Wizard of Oz books.

I like Oracle cards and I talk to the person first and then I give them the cards to pick for themselves. Then the things that I told them show up in the cards they chose. It reinforces to them what I said.

I think it happens because in the 4th dimension of that physical state of vibration then we can sense or know the future. The dimensions are not places like destinations but more like matching up in frequency. I am not sure if I go slightly into the future of awareness like deja vu but that is why life can be magical in a good way.

CC: Pre-filled Covid Syringes to Have RFID Chip

CC: Posted YouTube video about pre-filled Covid syringes will have RFID chip. Various comments and I decided to respond to one

Commenter 6: I love how so many people are worried about this RFID nonsense, yet they all carry smartphones that are absolutely capable of being used for tracking. If you’re so worried about the government “watching you” maybe start with the obvious sources.

me @Commenter6: Good point. As you say, we can utilize the phone to minimize tracking. That is within our control. With these vaccines trackers, I can see some differences:

1. We have the ability to choose what kind of phone we want to carry with us, if any. Vaccines seem to be forced upon us, if we don’t do anything about the mandatory vaccination agenda.

2. We have do ability to choose to turn off the phone whenever we want to. Vaccine tracking will be beyond our control to turn off and on.

3. A phone is separate from our body, not a substance that is injected into us. Vaccines become part of us and for some of us, cause quite detrimental effects.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

@Commenter 6: Whoops! The RFID chip is not to be injected into one’s body. It seems like it is to keep track of the vaccination delivery. I was thinking about the quantum dot dye tracking that can be included in with the vaccine.

JID: ICC Denounces US Sanctions on War Crime Investigators

JID posts RT article

https://www.rt.com/news/491590-icc-us-sanctions-response/

From this critique of the ICC:
“If there was a prize for the world’s most ineffective institution, the International Criminal Court would win hands down.

Consider this: The court has been in operation for fifteen years, has spent over a billion Euros, and has convicted just four war criminals. Yes, that’s correct. In a decade and a half, an institution proclaiming itself the world’s first permanent war crimes court has jailed just four war criminals.”



“Other court systems in other parts of the world are controlled by governments. The ICC is controlled by majority votes among its member states, but those states have no power over legal decisions themselves. In effect, the ICC runs itself.

Nor does the ICC have juries. In the Hague, the judges are the jury also.

Most seriously, the ICC has no legal oversight body to keep it honest.

Most states around the world have fully independent appeals processes, like the US Supreme Court, which is separated from the courts it keeps in line.

Not the ICC. It does have an appeals court, but its appeal judges are part of the ICC. They socialise, inevitably, with the rest of the ICC in the Hague.”
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2017/august/22/the-international-criminal-court-is-the-antithesis-of-justice/

Mothers Against School Entry Immunization

June 7, 2020 morning:
Here’s an inspiring speech by American investigative journalist and mother, Michelle Malkin on the steps of Colorado’s legislative building.

Colorado state bill SB 20-163 regarding school entry immunization is up for voting. She’s addressing the crowd for the result is known. She also testified at SB20-163 hearing in Denver, Colorado inside for the House Health & Insurance Committee

00:49-1:13
Who calls the shots? We call the shots. Mamas call the shots, not the states, not Bill Gates, not Big Pharma. And we’re here to remind our public servants that we call the shots, not them.

1:14-2:14
It is an absolute disgrace that the people who serve us scheduled this hearing at a time when they deliberated tried to suppress our voices.

America is a land of freedom, not of a land of fear. Isiah 41 tells us “Be not afraid.” Are you afraid? No!!! No fear. No bullying, no submission. To these forces who are trying to subvert a sacred constitutional right for the religious and personal beliefs exemption. To resist the industrial health complex: no!!

I’m not one to engage in profanities, but I agree with this sign over here “F Bill Gates.” And I know that the Lord will forgive me for harsh words.

2:17-3:17
We cannot sit by, we cannot kneel silently while our children are being endangered. As a responsible, informed parent, each and every one of us standing here have to do everything in our power to stop 163. Make sure they can hear your voices “No on 163! No on 163!

They tell us that they’re acting in our public interest. They tell us that they’re acting on behalf of our children. I have dominion and sovereignty over my children. And you do too.

3:18-3:46
And if we don’t exercise our muscles of civil and political engagement, they will hijack our children. They’re exploiting a crisis, and they’re very very good at it. But if we don’t draw the line here in Colorado, they will do the same in the rest of the country. We are a bulwark for? our freedom, not just for our children, but for America’s children.

3:47-4:21
They call us all sorts of names. Look at me, I’m a little brown woman with a big mouth. Hey? They’ve called me a racist, believe it not, this morning, a white Supremicist. Okay? They do. They call us conspiracy theorists, but guess what? Sometimes conspiracies are true. The conspiracy now consists of the public health industrial complex, elite, Silicon Valley, Pharmaceutical companies, educational tech tyrants.

4:22-5:13
They’re trying to silence us on every major platform. But they will hear us! Raise your voices! Stand tall Colorado.

This is about choice! This is not about black and white. Look at this crowd. There are people of all races, all backgrounds, all socioeconomic status. We have an alliance that is very unique. And that is why the forces of evil and the forces of control are so scared. We have Democrats, Independents, Republicans, limited government Conservatives, people who are concerned about privacy rights, data mining, and the corruption of science and public health in America.

5:17-
They may have billions of dollars, but we are on the side of truth and light. Truth will always prevail. You can try to force us to wear masks, you can try to force us to hide in our homes, but we are on the side of right, and we are on the side of God. God is watching over us.

Be not afraid. And make sure you use this moment as leverage. Right? We have to take this opportunity to educate. Educate these public servants who have no idea, who have no idea of who they are serving. They are in so much financial conflict of interest involved in this room. I drove up with my husband today, I’m doing on behalf of my family, families across America to raise our voices. And to make sure there is transparency and sunlight inside this building which we own.

There is strength in numbers. Each and every one of you have stood up here against a tyranny, against fear. We are Spartacus. Right? We are the Spartacuses. And make sure that you take this power, that you take this day and leverage it on behalf of our children and freedom against medical tyranny in Colorado.

Thank you for coming!

June 7, 2020 Investigative journalist and mother Michelle Malkin speaks
out against Colorado state bill SB 20-163 which calls for school entry immunization

KM: California Governor Covid Recession

June 12, 2020
KM: “Gavin Newsom’s ongoing response to the COVID crisis has plunged California into a recession—a deep recession brought on by government. It is estimated that over 30 percent of California restaurants will not reopen. The hotel industry still has occupancy rates below 25 percent, while landlords deal with empty storefronts and a lack of cash flow.’ And then he threatens to lay off first responders unless the federal government bails him out. Class act.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/it-is-time-to-recall-gavin-newsom_3385530.html

Commenter 2: K really sometimes I wish you would just shit the fuck up for a minute.

@Commenter 2: I hear that you’re sometimes fed up and angry with K continually expressing his views.

Commenter 2: K really sometimes I wish you would just shit the fuck up for a minute.

Commenter 3: Agreed. He’s part of the problem.
And this is coming from a former Democrat, who voted green party for the last two elections and will probably do it again this round.

Commenter 2 @Commenter 3: Disagree. I think the opposite. I think you have become part of the problem.

I think Gavin is doing an amazing job under impossible circumstances while you keep working to pull the rug out from under him. I think you wouldn’t last a second in his situation. You keep doing you’re armchair quarterbacking, criticizing the person who’s doing the actual impossible work. You sound like spoiled teenagers,

Why not be part of the solution instead, why not stop floating stupid (us vs them) conspiracies and look for ways to move us ALL forward. Why not let go of your privileged demands long enough to notice that a lot of people dont have it as well as you.

Put your energy into help rather than criticizing. Its a luxury to own a home. Its a luxury to be healthy. Its a luxury to not be on the street. Consider gratitude. Now work from there, Help other people get strong rather than whining because you are being asked to wear a fucking mask.

We all hate wearing the mask but we’re not all complaining nonstop about it. And PLEASE stop long enough to consider that maybe you are being played, spreading the nice, neat little “studies” and memes packaged to create discontent and mistrust in democratic voters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Commenter 4 @Commenter 2: yea great governor who collapses under pressure. He doesn’t even look like the same guy from when he started – he’s the typical wants-to-do-whats-right to get elected and has gotten skewed and bought by the big political system and big Pharma game that he just seems like another robot.

Commenter 2 @Commenter 3: Bullshit. So easy to say from you’re nice comfortable armchair!!!!

@Commenter 2: I hear that you’re wanting people to see that Governor Newsom is doing a great job under the impossible circumstances and would appreciate that people stop dissing him.

You’re wanting folks to do something positive and proactive to help out rather than criticizing from the cozy home and bleachers.

OP @Commenter2: A real leader would be promoting everyone’s health — especially vulnerable people. Health results from nutritious food, exercise, fresh air and emotional well being. And for a tiny fraction of what this fiasco will end up costing we could substantially boost the immunity of all vulnerable people with supplements like vitamin D, vitamin C, multi-mineral and others I have posted about. Plus we could effectively treat the sickest with intravenous vitamin C or ozone (to name two effective treatments). Masks and lockdowns achieve the opposite of health in many ways.

Though I fully support anyone who wants to voluntarily wear a mask or stay home, lockdowns have been a failed experiment that have had and will continue to have severe negative consequences. Of course the strategies I suggest wouldn’t result in zero morality — we all die.

And, I will never stop calling out the ridiculously (criminally)-misguided strategies represented by lockdowns and “vaccines”. Regardless, the mortality rate from corona is about 0.1-0.2% (even using official, elevated CDC figures it is only 0.26%) so we must live our lives and stop this insane myopia.

Commenter 2 : I fear that this is how you are being used. This is what you are propagating with your endless mask complaint. 

https://www.latimes.com/…/a-revolt-against-wearing…

Commenter 2 : Go ahead and spread your opinions about “supplements like vitamin D, vitamin C, multi-mineral etc” but please stop attacking and complaining

And please back all your ideas with VERY SOLID DATA.

And Please stop posting bullshit conspiracies and hate pieces. When you do that then everything positive you say becomes shit and only pleases your conspiracy groupies.

OP @Commenter2: This is more corporate media fear porn. Health is from nutritious food, exercise and emotional well being. Supplements can also help.

Masks, lockdowns or vaccines are antithetical to health (though I fully support anyone who voluntarily chooses any or all of those). Healthy people do not need to worry about every little germ that comes along.

The whole approach is a misguided big Pharma/government sham.

What feels better health and love or being afraid of every germ, of other people, hiding at home and wearing a mask and being afraid of dying? That is not normal — or healthy. And, of course our human bodies will all die eventually. Until then, let’s live.

OP @Commenter2: It almost seems like some people are hell bent on there being some pandemic despite evidence to the contrary. Please choose love, not fear.

Commenter 2 : Too easy every time you get challenged to call it “corporate media fear porn”. Thats childish. Will your next argument be “fake news” or “lock her up”?

Please respond with your intellect and your heart.

And Please actually read the article. I didn’t share it with you just for what is said in the headline. I want you to read about the stress that people who are fighting for us are under because people like you keep posting hate pieces aimed at them

@Commenter 2: Yes, I read that then-county health officer Dr. Nichole Quick was fearing for her life and resigned in order to not constantly live under a death threat.

The article says: “Her replacement on Thursday rescinded the rules amid intense pressure from the Board of Supervisors.” and now instead of mandatory, they are strongly recommending the wearing of a mask.

One of the interpretations I make of the article is that Americans have a will of their own, especially when it comes to their liberty and their ability to make their own decisions.

Commenter 2 @me : Sort of like having a will of our own over which side of the street we drive on?

@Commenter 2: Yeah, getting consensus among a bunch of people is not easy! Usually there has to be some threat over our heads to do something.

Commenter 2 @me : sort of like in the blitzkrieg, the people of England were ordered to cover their windows. No one complained about their rights being infringed upon. We are in a similar situation.

Its not as much in your face as bombs dropping, requires a little more foresight and empathy to wrap our heads around, but just as important.

And Its temporary, for the well being of our brothers and sisters. If this were a permanent order I would be yelling louder than most. But its not, it’s temporary. So the endless harping sounds like white privilege crybaby tantrums to me.

@Commenter 2: Thanks for sharing your view that what’s necessary needs to be done, with no complaining about rights being violated.

You have a good point that it does take a little more foresight and empathy to see the whole picture which includes not only ourselves, but the wellbeing of others.

You’re saying that a temporary thing is much more palatable for you. It’s not presented a permanent one, so what’s the big deal?

TP: Confusion repost

TP posts someone else’s post (KK):

I can’t keep up. I just can’t. I’m stressed. I’m exhausted trying to figure out what we’re all supposed to do, believe, and be outraged by next.

Two months ago, First Responders were all the rage. In fact, they were heroes. We gave them free coffee, meals, and cheers as they drove by.Today we hate them and want them defunded because they can’t be trusted.

Nurses and Doctors are still cool for now. But they may be unemployed. They too are heroes, unless of course they truly believe all lives matter. Then they’re filled with hate and are part of problem like so many others.

Just 45 days ago protests weren’t “essential” and were considered criminal, selfish and a murderous activity. Today they are gloriously critical and celebrated. All of the obvious criminal and murderous activities are simply ignored. If you protest about lockdowns for freedom, you are selfish and you will spread a virus. If you protest, loot, and riot for social justice, you are a warrior and the virus cedes.

Trust the experts. No, not those experts. Don’t wear masks … wear masks, but only good ones. Wait, don’t wear masks, wear anything as a mask. Never mind on the masks. Not sure, but if you don’t, you hate people because you could be an asymptomatic spreader. Wait. That’s not a thing anymore?

For 3 months, NOTHING was more important than social distance. In fact, we gave up all of our liberties for it. We canceled schools, medical and dental procedures, yet allowed the murder of babies, canceled activities, closed businesses, eliminated every spring rite of passage from prom to graduation, denied people funerals, even at Arlington, and we wrecked the economy for it. Then came social justice, and social distance was no more. Now things are more cut and dry though. A thousand people at three memorials for someone they never even met. It’s a matter of “respect”. But you can only assemble 100 or less people.

Black Lives Matter. Of course they do. Then multiple black police officers and individuals were killed during the “peaceful protests”. I don’t see any outrage. Black individually owned businesses burned to the ground. Silence. Deadliest weekend in Chicago. NOTHING!!

I’m really confused now. Look at the data, NO, not that data. Do the math. No, you can’t do the math like that. Only the experts can understand the data and math. What do you mean other cities/states/governors are interpreting the data differently? Pools are safe in Indiana, but not Michigan? Playgrounds are safe in your town but not mine? Amusement parks are safe in Florida but not Ohio?

Just listen to the black community leaders. No, not them.

If you are silent you are part of the problem. If you speak, you are part of the problem. If you have to ask, you don’t understand. If you don’t ask, you don’t care.

It’s all so unpredictably-predictable, tedious, and exhausting. Nothing adds up. It’s one gigantic common core Math life problem, with ever-changing denominators that I’m sure the media and politicians are eagerly ready to solve for us….until the next “crisis”.

*Copied, not my original words, but def my thoughts.


Commenter 2: I can’t help but feel the author wrote this to deliberately conflate things, make false equivalencies, and confuse things more. It would take a day that I’m not willing to spend to unravel it all. I can only take away that the author wants to feel justified in believing and doing whatever they want because “facts are too complicated”. It’s a not so subtle excuse to act selfishly.

OP TP @Commenter 2: so you haven’t felt confused at all during the last few months?

I did see Cori Yule sharing a post wondering about why schools could open but parks were remaining closed.

i don’t think we should be dissuaded from asking questions about our own experiences and the different messages coming in.
Why do you assume that people will use being confused to justify being selfish?

i didn’t get that from this writing.

I think it’s been confusing for a lot of people, that doesn’t mean that just because people are trying to make sense of things that they won’t be safe does it?

We can’t be afraid to think deeper. We are all responsible and in this together. And I get your concern about people making choices that could put others at risk.
Im imagining that everyone is doing their best while navigate this uncertainty. 🙏

Commenter 3 @Commenter 2: I agree. I get all the confusion as there is a lot (so I wear masks in public to be on the safe side) but I’m not confused on anything about the BLM movement or my moral compass. I’ve never heard anybody say you can’t ask questions. I also think there is a big difference between protesting to be able to go get your hair cut and protesting the death of yet another visible minority.

Commenter 4: I agree there are mixed messages but thus is is intentionally ignorant

Commenter 5: Be confused if you want to, but my gut doesn’t trust this demure tone for a moment.

For me, the author isn’t going deeper or questioning things…the thoughts are superficial and contrived. The author feigns exhaustion and confusion while driving towards a very specific place. It’s a tactic. Some people don’t actually honour the vulnerability of confusion, they speak the language of it to exploit it. I feel what is going on in this writing and I don’t trust the vibe for a minute. I get that you do, TP.

Commenter 3 @Commenter 5: exactly this, thanks for spelling it out. This is so manipulative I find it disconcerting.

Commenter 5 @Commenter 3:  thanks, I find it disconcerting too.

OP TP: ok, Now I’m starting to consider that maybe this post could be a tactic to point out that there are alot of conflicting ideas and messages floating around and if we’re not questioning our fixed beliefs maybe we oughta! haha!

OP @Commenter 5: i hear you

me @Commenter 5: Thanks for your thoughts of exploiting confusion.

I’m curious as to which specific place you feel the author is driving towards. Would you be so kind to elucidate?

Commenter 5 @me:  Thanks for asking. For me, the formula reads like an old school guru script: tell people they are being deceived, that they are duped. Direct their confusion. Next step: tell them that guru understands the “real agenda” and he will dispense the Truth (just click here).

I searched for the people who posted this piece and made note of the other articles they posted before and after it. Noticed it is a warm-up piece to some regularly programmed themes and tropes including premeditated race war, Ike, pandemic, new world order, pro-trump, bill gates, all lives matter, pizza gate, sprinkled with calls to be high frequency and awakening.

We’ve got a generation of light and lovers with some big shadows. That is my 2 cents, for what it is worth

Commenter 5 @me:  I include myself in having some big shadows that flow from my ways of thinking.

me @Commenter 5: Ahhh, so this piece is part of peoples’ agenda to present their case on what they believe true to be happening in the world.

And you’re reminding us not to spiritually bypass

Trump’s Executive Order Against the International Criminal Court

June 11, 2020:
Trump continues to remove threats to the freedom of the American people with today’s Executive Order to take action against the International Criminal Court and related parties.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-blocking-property-certain-persons-associated-international-criminal-court/

Freeze the property assets of folks who are a threat to Americans.

Commenter 1: I wonder if there’s any media coverage of this or if they’re still focused on calling him a racist. Can you say more about the implications?

@Commenter 1: The International Criminal Court (ICC) is a vehicle of the NWO. If the USA agreed to be part of the ICC, then the ICC could hold US military and political leaders to a NWO global standard of justice.
Trump is assuring the sovereignty of Americans to be able to govern themselves.

Commenter 1: Canada should do the same!

Commenter 2: DJT is doing many wonderful things. When personal research has been done, and individuals exercise their muscle of discernment and tune out the MSM, one may notice many things are not as they appear.

@Commenter 2: Please feel free to share here, what other actions you have discovered that implies that DJT is working for freedom, safety, health, and the pursuit of happiness.

Commenter 3: Yesss

Commenter 4: Harreson, it sounds like you want the US to be more like North Korea, China, and Russia with no accountability regarding world standards of conduct. Open season on torture, other war crimes and genocide. Am I hearing you correctly on this? Am I missing something?

Commenter 5 @Commenter 4: yes, you are missing the higher principle, which is, nations have sovereignty and do not get ruled by an unelected group of super rich, one world government bureaucrats who want to rule over every man, woman and child on planet earth with no accountability, no mandate and no morality..just virtue signalling bullshit.

Yes, there were likely crimes committed in these illegal wars, but it is up to the citizens of each country to hold their government accountable, not a bunch of geo-political agents of the 1% to pretend to do so, simply to advance their nwo agenda. they are phoney, and evil, and nakedly so . 
www.unnwo.org

Commenter 4 @Commenter 5: I would like to know if Harreson agrees with the Wild West model you espouse or if he prefers at more inclusive kinder world where nations seek to operate in cooperation, peace, and generosity of spirit.

Commenter 5 @Commenter 4: Wild West model…? can you explain your label please? “Nations” cannot do any of that if they cease to be “nations”…

Commenter 5 @Commenter 4: Transition to Greatness is Live now. I wish more people would set aside their hate and find the good in what is….we can’t change who the President is until the election…so in the meantime, isn’t looking for the good and calling out the verifiable mistakes, the best thing we can do? I’d like to see the same level of engagement here in Canada because we have way less democracy here. Here is the solution. 
https://unifythepeople.ca/

Commenter 5 @Commenter 4: They are going to invest billions into minority communities, even beyond the Opportunity Zones Program that invested over 80 Billion $ , from the private industries, in over 200 low income communities across America. They are going to fix the sub-standard medical institutions and hospitals. They are going to fund social workers and mental health workers to ride along with police where possible. How will people try to spin this into something negative…let’s see.. 

https://youtu.be/ys9sX1qh08k

@Commenter 4: I am with you for a kinder world where nations seek to operate in cooperation, peace, and generosity of spirit.

Before that happens on a global level, cooperation, peace, and generosity must happen on the national level.

Before that can happen on the national level, it must happen on the federal, state/provincial, and municipal levels.

Before that can happen, kindness, tolerance, forgiveness, empathy, generosity, and peace must happen on the individual level.

I think that top down governance where the underlying philosophy might not be compassion, cooperation, peace and generosity is something to avoid at all costs.

For example, here in Canada, the Harper government secretly and behind-closed-doors, brokered the FIPA with China in 2014. It puts Canada at tremendous disadvantages, one of which Chinese corporations can sue the Canadian government. With one agreement, all of a sudden China has legal power over Canada.
And Trudeau would have brokered more agreements with China.

I think it’s a matter of you got to crawl before you can walk, walk before you can run, put on the airmask first before you attend to others, and clean out your house first before inviting others over to live with you.
Be very careful of whom you choose for roommates – you may never get them out, and they may make life hell for you.

https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-canada-china-fipa-good-idea-flawed-deal-1.1395075
https://rabble.ca/books/reviews/2016/01/debunking-fipa-canadas-lopsided-investment-deal-china

Commenter 4: Yes, progress is slow, but I think for someone like Trump who wants more power to use brutal methods to shut down protestors, and tried to get the military to open fire on asylum seekers to seek to avoid accountability for his brutal intent from the world Court is, to me, a scary prospect. I am glad to hear you wish for peace and compassion. That is how I remember you to be.

@Commenter 4: It’s very scary with the rioting and provocation that’s happening down there. Ideally, peaceful protests would be able to have their own space, but others are using the opportunity to pursue their own agendas.

A very difficult situation – I would be totally stressed out if I had to deal with it.

Commenter 4: To me it is scarier what people of color have had to deal with for so long, and that threatens their everyday safety, security, liberty, life, health, wellbeing, economic security and more. Trump is taking the position that they are terrorists and that their voices should be silenced with violence the preferred tool. I feel that a sliver of air is finally leaking through and for that I am grateful.

@Commenter 4: I think you’re saying that you’re relieved that the chronic oppression of POC is having an opportunity to be heard.

Commenter 4: and that people in power are starting to take action.

Commenter 4: But there is such a long way to go. Will it survive past the news cycle?

Commenter 4: And will progressive bills die on the Senate floor?

@Commenter 4: I hope that the progressive bills that defend the freedom, health, safety, privacy, and allows America to be Great again, will be passed by Senate.

I’m hopeful that with continued prayer and peoples’ heartful efforts, that good will overcome non-life-affirming efforts.

Commenter 6 @Commenter 4: hi there! I know the two gentlemen in this thread but I don’t think that you and I have met. I read thru and I wanted to ask you about the post of yours that I clicked Like on:

“To me it is scarier what people of color have had to deal with for so long, and that threatens their everyday safety, security, liberty, life, health, wellbeing, economic security and more. Trump is taking the position that they are terrorists and that their voices should be silenced with violence the preferred tool. I feel that a sliver of air is finally leaking through and for that I am grateful.”

I see the first part as the POC and agree with everything you wrote about them. I started to lose you in the next sentence starting with ‘Trump’. Is he is referring to the POC as terrorists, (which is what I think you were writing about?) or is he referring to the Antifa as terrorists?

Asking as perhaps I missed the story on the part that you are relaying…
Thanks!! 🙂

Commenter 5: Another Globalist domino falls….good.

Commenter 7: This is BS. he’s not doing that to save “average Americans”. He’s doing it to protect the corrupt and ruthless “business people” who plunder the planet using unethical and illegal practices. This is another move to protect the 1% from being accountable for their actions.

@Commenter 7: I hear that you’re saying that this EO has nothing to do with protecting the average Joe but is more geared to protecting the ruthless plundering business people.

Commenter 7: exactly. What does the average American have to fear from this court? It has no interest in them it is only interested in criminals who operate on an international level. Like, perhaps, the Trump family?

@Commenter 7: I wonder if this analogy applies:

Suppose you are the owner of a large parcel of land. And you have folks living on that parcel of land, hopefully living peacefully and harmoniously. You’ve created a bit of community with those folks. And maybe you feel connected with those folks and feel some responsibility to help see that their lives are fruitful and happy.

One day, a neighbour from far away comes to visit. And says, “Wow! This is such a great thing you have here. I want a piece of the action and I want authority to be able to make decisions that contest however you are stewarding this land and these people.”

I think the International Criminal Court is such a neighbour.

Let me know your thoughts on this analogy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court

https://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/PIDS/publications/UICCEng.pdf

From Catherine Gegout’s 2013 critique of the ICC:
“Significance of the ICC for criminals and victims

I argue in this section that the ICC either has no impact or a positive impact in terms of providing international justice and peace.

First, the ICC does not seem to have prevented potential criminals from being violent, whether they live instates parties or non-party states to the ICC, but this could change in the future given that some potential criminals seem to fear the ICC.

Second, the reaction of individuals indicted by the ICC is indeterminate: some have continued to use violence, whereas others seem to have contained it.

Finally, victims who are aware of the ICC seem to be generally in favour of it, even if it only provides symbolic justice. “

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/01436597.2013.800737

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-45670690/why-is-the-international-criminal-court-under-attack

Commenter 8: umm… do you really see the American government as a bunch of folks peacefully living in harmony on their own land? The average American middle class probably, but not their elites. It may be that Trump is against some elites, but its more that he just wants his elites to be there instead.

https://www.theatlantic.com/…/america-is-not-a…/550931/
* Trump has no real intention of devolving power back to the people. He’s filled his administration with members of the same elite he disparaged on the campaign trail. His biggest legislative success, the tax bill, has handed gifts to corporations and the donor class. A little more than a year after America rebelled against political elites by electing a self-proclaimed champion of the people, its government is more deeply in the pockets of lobbyists and billionaires than ever before.

https://www.vox.com/…/156…/trump-government-fossil-fuels
* Donald Trump is handing the federal government over to fossil fuel interests. The appointments, the policies, the rhetoric — it is not subtle.

https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/beachhead
* Here are More than 1,000 Officials Trump has Quietly Deployed Across the Government

https://www.vox.com/…/trump-press-briefing-fake-news

@Commenter 8: I can see that American folks are not and that’s why I put in my analogy “hopefully living…”

In any case, the analogy was about the visiting neighbour who wants authority over you. Instead of looking at a country, one could closer to one’s home. If someone owned their own home, and then someone came along and told you that they wanted authority on what happens in your home, that they could tell you what’s right or wrong within your home, how would that feel?

I believe that is the role that the International Criminal Court wants to play in other peoples’ business.

Commenter 7: The ICC has jurisdiction to prosecute individuals for the international crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, and the crime of aggression.
For which of these do you feel the US should have immunity from accountability? Why?

Commenter 8: umm… do you really see the American government as a bunch of folks peacefully living in harmony on their own land? The average American middle class probably, but not their elites. It may be that Trump is against some elites, but its more that he just wants his elites to be there instead.

https://www.theatlantic.com/…/america-is-not-a…/550931/
* Trump has no real intention of devolving power back to the people. He’s filled his administration with members of the same elite he disparaged on the campaign trail. His biggest legislative success, the tax bill, has handed gifts to corporations and the donor class. A little more than a year after America rebelled against political elites by electing a self-proclaimed champion of the people, its government is more deeply in the pockets of lobbyists and billionaires than ever before.

https://www.vox.com/…/156…/trump-government-fossil-fuels
* Donald Trump is handing the federal government over to fossil fuel interests. The appointments, the policies, the rhetoric — it is not subtle.

https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/beachhead
* Here are More than 1,000 Officials Trump has Quietly Deployed Across the Government

https://www.vox.com/…/trump-press-briefing-fake-news

@Commenter 7: The analogies I put forth to Dan and Audrey present my view of the ICC. I will try to duplicate it again.

Here’s my analogy that I gave Audrey of how I see the ICC as a visiting organization (I used the word neighbour, but I think organization is more appropriate).

“If someone owned their own home, and then some organization comes along and tells you that they want authority on what happens in your home, that they can tell you what’s right or wrong within your home, how would that feel?”

The analogy I put forth to Dan was roughly this:
“Imagine you have a large parcel of land. You have people living there (hopefully peacefully and harmoniously). A sense of community is being built. You feel a sense of connection and responsibility to these folks.

Then one day, a representative from a far away organization comes to visit. The representative tells you that they want authority over what happens within your parcel of land and over the folks who preside in it. They want the ability to say what is right and what is wrong and to be able to execute what judgment and penalty they deem appropriate. They will put you on trial and you will have to be accountable to them.”

That’s how I view the role of what the ICC wants to implement around the world.

Please let me know what you think.

Commenter 7: And which of these crimes is part of Trumps plan? Why is he so desperate for this that he had to do it by executive order?

Commenter 7: Which side of this do you want to be on?

@Commenter 7: As I mentioned before, I am for any bills and actions that defend the freedom, health, safety, privacy, ability to pursue one’s happiness without harming anyone, and allows America to be Great again. And not only America but for all peoples’ and countries.

Commenter 7: I don’t understand. Your posts about this executive order do not reflect that sentiment. The ICC only applies to the most horrific of international crimes.

Commenter 9: Many of the actions taken by the national guard and the US could fall under international human rights violations.

Commenter 8:  in general I agree with the sentiment against excessive partiality for a foreign nation, as espoused by George Washington. Or as John Quincy Adams said, a nation should not go abroad “in search of monsters to destroy.”

On that note, I think an organization like the ICC, is probably incapable of being impartial, based on current global politics/ methodologies/ human failing. So I think I can understand your general point.

I just wish that those principles that the US administration do onto others as they wish to happen to themselves.

The fact that the Republican party is deliberately trying to hawk anti-China rhetoric as a way to win the elections is hypocritical or gutless at best.

To pluck yet another scapegoat out of the air to win the elections. Sometimes blame the Jews, sometimes the deepstate, sometimes the muslims, now the Chinese government. I mean when is it gonna end? Why can’t the US elections be just about the policies of US politicians in USA?

https://www.vanityfair.com/…/why-trumps-blame-china…

@Commenter 7: I apologize if my analogies are not making sense. Basically I think that the ICC wants to get countries to agree to give the ICC jurisdiction in their country.

Yes, they may start with the worst criminal cases but as I try to show in my analogy, why would anyone give a representative of some organization jurisdiction in your business?

I wonder if I switch analogies might help. If you’re a mother and you’re taking care of your child. One day a man comes to visit you and wants you to agree to them being able to judge the actions of your children and pass sentence on them. Would you give them the permission and jurisdiction to do that to your children?

I hope that makes it clearer on my view of what I think the ICC is trying to do.

@Commenter 9: As we’ve seen with top level organizations like WHO or CDC, their judgments and opinions hold sway over billions of peoples’ lives. Do we really want to give our power away to top governance that have no connection to the people?

@Commenter 8: I’m starting to realize that China is dear to your heart and that you feel that they have been portrayed unfairly.

Commenter 7: Do you have any evidence that the ICC operate outside of their purview? As a mother there are laws that prevent me from killing or abusing my children (as there should be).

Commenter 8:  only to the point that I don’t want to be burnt alive, like the Jews were when they were they blamed for causing black death. Now, Chinese are being blamed for black death.

I have never met any relatives in China, don’t even know their names. I don’t speak Chinese. I just don’t want to be burnt alive, or subject to the type of Holocaust that Jews under Germany were subject to because according to the Nazis the Jews controlled the world or internment. Can’t you see that is where we are headed?

Commenter 8: don’t you realize if the rhetoric against China continues unabated, that your family could be interned as the Japanese were, and any property or valuables confiscated.

It doesn’t matter that you support Trump or espouse conservatives views. Once the rhetoric overtakes all rationality, your skin colour will be seen as evidence of guilt.

@Commenter 7: I don’t have any personal evidence. Let’s look at this 2013 report by Catherine Gegout. The International Criminal Court: limits, potential and conditions for the promotion of justice and peace, Third World Quarterly, 34:5, 800-818, DOI:10.1080/01436597.2013.800737

On page 806/9:

“The ICC is a legal body, supposedly concerned with justice, and not politics. However, the Court can have considerable political impact because it has signif-\icant independent power. The chief prosecutor can initiate an investigation on the basis of a referral from any state which is party to the ICC, or from the UNSC acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations.

In addition, the prosecutor can initiate investigations proprio motu, on the basis of information received from individuals or organisations about crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court. The prosecutor has done this twice since its creation: in Kenyaand in Ivory Coast.

The ICC does not work consistently according to the principles of international law, and it does not always appear fair. The Court chooses its prosecutions strategically, following criteria of its own. The ICC has to decide whether it will be more effective to pursue one case, and see the person indicted, judged and imprisoned, than to investigate many cases where evidence is limited and successful prosecution uncertain.

The procedure used by the ICC can sometimes yield controversial results.The prosecutor uses the jurisdictional threshold of gravity: only serious crimes are investigated. But s/he does not follow his/her own threshold consistently. For instance, in the DRC those investigating the crimes of Thomas Lubanga found evidence of torture, pillage, rape and enslavement, but as this evidence was insufficient, a decision was made to focus only on child soldiers.”



“The Court has targeted some individuals, but neglected others equally well known for their violence and crimes. For instance, in the DRC, the ICC has not indicted Laurent Nkunda, leader of the rebel group known as the National Congress for the Defence of the People (CNDP) in Eastern Congo. In Kenya the ICC investigation is not considered fair by everyone, as the ICC prosecutor does not appear to be investigating the worst offenders, but rather those who are easily apprehended.”

There’s a bunch more examples in the report, I believe.

https://www.tandfonline.com/…/10.1080/01436597.2013.800737

@Commenter 8: I think that you’re saying that you’re worried that China will be illegally and improperly penalized for crimes that they did not commit. And that because my family heritage is Chinese, that my family and I will also suffer those consequences of unjust imprisonment or worse.

You’re worried that escalating, uncontrollable, unrational, emotional racism against China will translate into actions similar to the Jews being gassed, the Japanese being interned and their property taken away from them, and that you don’t want to suffer the same fate of being burnt alive.

Commenter 10: you are a good conversationalist, you actually make an effort to understand what people are saying.

@Commenter 10: Thanks for the acknowledgment G. My style of communication stems from a long standing concern that I’ve had about myself: “I don’t know what to say.”

Because I felt that I didn’t know what to say, then I spent time learning what to say in order to meet my needs for connection and authenticity. That led to Non Violent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg and reflective listening. As my own trauma received some healing, as I found my own mission and place in the world, then I was able to hold more space for others. Whether it is compassionate or empathetic enough, I just have to accept where I’m at right now and keep on doing my best.

Feel free to call me out whenever I’m not doing as good a job as I could. I certainly have lots of blind spots.

Commenter 10: Reflective listening is so powerful, people rightly feel acknowledged when they are heard.

Commenter 8: I do appreciate when you switch to NVC style communication, but I want to suggest that in this era of McCarthyism 2.0, can you please, never suggest that I am pro-China?

That to me, this is the equivalent of Amy Cooper calling the cops on Chris Cooper saying an African American man is harassing her.

First off, I am not pro-China, I am anti-propaganda. I will happily discuss issues with the government of China, as long as they are justified. Just because I realize there is a lot of fakenews about China doesn’t make me pro-China. I just want fair coverage… yes… so that I don’t get sent to an internment camp, get gassed to death, or get burnt to death.

Second off, even if I was pro-China, the effect of calling someone pro-China, is currently a way of dehumanizing them. As the assumption is, that the pro-China person must be a paid bot or spy.

I say we are at the stage of McCarthyism, because we already see the effect propaganda has on reducing peoples desire to go to Chinese restaurants, do business with Chinese people in Vancouver. Same as happened to the Jews before the holocaust. First dehumanize the race, call them dirty, call them spreading of diseases, say they are poisoning your wells/food, call them only interested in money, and destroying society.

You can say the republicans called out the CCP and not the Chinese race in their memo to to candidates by the National Republican Senatorial Committee, but so did Hitler when he first called out the Jewish elite in Russia, Britain and America.

We already see top scientists nationality orientation suspected, instead of questioning their science or methods such as Dr. Theresa Tam. We see Harvard’s Charles Lieber branded as a spy for consorting with the Chinese government, when what he did was more akin to tax evasion.

Same as what happened in the McCarthy trials, where just by knowing someone that was in the communist party you could lose your career. Such as when esteemed physicist Robert Oppenheimer had to then work as a cattle rancher instead. Or Owen Lattimore lost his position. Or many Hollywood stars were blacklisted.

They were later proven not to be guilty of spying. However, the assumption was just that if you were not anti-Communist then you must be a spy.

@Commenter 8: I apologize for thinking that you are pro-China. I guess that when you were talking about Taiwan, I got the impression that you were anti-Taiwan and pro-China. I will keep that in mind that you are not pro-China (and I don’t associate pro-China to being a spy).

Thank you for clarifying your view.

I’m guessing that you’re concerned that the SARS-CoV-2 virus originating from Wuhan is creating a huge backlash directed to innocent Chinese folks. And being a compassionate person, you don’t want Chinese or any other folks to be harmed and being witch-hunted.

Commenter 11: i can’t believe you are defending the Donald…but i still love you for who you are.

@Commenter 11: The evil Trump – how could I be defending that sexist, racist, insensitive pig!?

It’s hard to believe, eh? Feel free to share with me otherwise what his failing are. I acknowledge he has a bunch of them.

Love you too. 🙂

Commenter 8: what I’ve discovered about my research about Taiwan, is yes, I was initially horrified about the actions of Taiwan elites.

But later I realized, that some of the Taiwanese democratic movement, does not consider Taiwan’s KMT government to be Taiwanese, but instead Mainlanders.

I can’t say they are wrong, but they probably can’t publicize globally that view either because that would be like saying that Mainland Chinese formed the bulk of the government of Taiwan since 1949.

Its complicated. But if I can simplify, Taiwan is caught in a tug-of-war internally. Nothing to do with external forces. The KMT party that was ruling Taiwan for most of the time since 1949 is pro-China (as in they want to rule China), the DDP party that is now in power, prefers independence. Each party when voted into government undoes each others work with the definition of Taiwan vs Republic of China.

The Taiwanese people themselves were terrorized and subjugated by the KMT elite that declared themselves lords of Formosa/Taiwan, after being defeated by the CCP.

So I’ve since softened against the Taiwanese, and we probably both agree that the KMT elite are worse than evil.

And I am upset about how the KMT elite have shaped global politics since 1949 with bribes and lies.

https://consortiumnews.com/…/how-china-lobby-shaped…/

@Commenter 8: Thanks for that link. That’s an interesting point that you bring up regarding the pros and cons of KMT vs DDP.

Since my post here is about Trump’s EO on the ICC, my preference would be to take this KMT-DDP dialogue on a separate thread. I know nothing about China/Taiwan politics.

Do you feel comfortable to post something on your timeline about this? Then I can reply there.

Commenter 8: apologies. I am not highly interested in Taiwan’s internal politics, as I think it is for them to sort out.

I do want to create some kind of document to ask people to not allow the Republican party to dominate news with their anti-China agenda. Not because I’m pro-China, but because I’m against elites controlling the agenda. However, I’m not ready for that yet, will let you know.

@Commenter 8:  Let me know and I can contribute to the dialogue since I’m interested in fair governance that benefits the people.

Commenter 5 @Commenter 8: Trump & Pompeo “blaming” China ….is a total distraction, a cover story, for optics, for the public, because blaming another state for anything bad that happens..is the old playbook go-to move…..and we expect it. but, it’s ALL a cover story, for what is really happening behind the scenes…and I will bet that Xi is in on it…”All the world is a stage”..let us remember 😉

Commenter 5: I hope you can let go of your fear of China doing something bad to us, and if you want to be afraid of something, there’s plenty going on here in North America, Australia, NZ and Europe to be VERY concerned about…. with where this woke, nihilist, postmodernist culture is trying to take us… it has the potential be be our “Cultural Revolution”…and we know how that went…for all those with “the wrong thoughts”….

Commenter 11: Totally behind this. In all historic examples where an organization/overseer enters a community that they are not based out of, the community loses their sovereignty and becomes one more thing to be dominated by the governing party. Think of the royal family, the catholic church, Monsanto, the oil industry, forestry… or read 1984. Governance and accountability HAS to happen by the local people who live there… that’s the only way communities have maintained any sense of social justice, security and sovereignty throughout history.

Commenter 5 @Commenter 11: Very well put, Jessica! And we see this exact thing happening south of the border, to a high degree, as the citizens are now protecting their neighbourhoods and small businesses from those violent agitators whose mission is to destroy, terrorize and destabilize the government.

In doing so they are also empowering the peaceful protesters pushing for system change AT THE LOCAL LEVEL FIRST! I recently came across Unify the People movement here in Canada that is growing fast by the looks of it, which seeks to dissolve the patriarchal systems of governance and replace them with a people run system, under a Republic where no institutions or governments can take away the enshrined rights of ANY person!

Listen to the videos here from one of the organizers. Very exciting! The movement is underway to free the Canadian people from these thieves in suits, like Tru Dough & Co. Wouldn’t it be great to see someone like Jody Wilson-Raybould join THIS movement!?? Maybe we can try to get this in front of her. The time is right! 
https://unifythepeople.ca/

@Commenter 11:  Thanks for your people-power oriented thoughts JMAH! 🙂

Commenter 5 @Commenter 11: Here is one massively heroic man who is taking matters into his own hands, and attracting some very high level people, including, he says, a 2 Star American General, who is letting TRump know what’s going on…he claims, and this emerging struggle for freedom and justice here in the wild west of C, eh, N, eh, D, eh! 😉

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UN5kqiIzxs

Commenter 12:
https://www.democracynow.org/2020/6/12/headlines/trump_sanctions_icc_staff_as_investigators_probe_us_war_crimes_in_afghanistan

@Commenter 12: Thanks for the link and adding your input.

From the article:
“The Trump administration announced sanctions Thursday against investigators with the International Criminal Court amid reports the ICC has evidence of rape, torture and other war crimes committed by American forces in Afghanistan.

Hina Shamsi, director of the ACLU’s National Security Project, responded, “President Trump is grossly abusing emergency powers to block one of the only avenues left for justice to victims of terrible American human rights violations. He has repeatedly bullied international organizations, and is now playing directly into the hands of authoritarian regimes by intimidating judges and prosecutors committed to holding countries accountable for war crimes.””

Sounds like you would like us to consider Ms Shamsi’s view?

Commenter 12:
You don’t have to rely on Ms Shamsi’s “view.” WikiLeaks exposed millions of internal government documents exposing war crimes and lies misleading the public. There is hard evidence and witnesses. But no one paid much attention at the time to WikiLeaks or the persecution of Julian Assuage. Perhaps if there was a pandemic back then things might be different.

As far as Trump goes, in my mind, someone with half your intelligence and an eighth of your heart, Harrreson, should be able to recognize this man is a dangerous sociopath, a fascist, a raciest, a tyrant. I wonder given the way this pandemic has affected us all, and knowing you are a kind caring intelligent person, that it has put you in a crisis of sorts. It just seems really weird you’d be embracing this stuff. It don’t make sense to me.

The so called liberal media is corporate media. They talk political correctness, gender politics, they don’t threaten capitalism or call for economic equality. Them going off on Trump is a cheap distraction, it it meaningless. They serve the same corporate master class Trump serves and is a part of. Joe Biden serves them too. There is a deluge of conspiracy theories saturating the internet. Many propagated by right wing groups just to muddy the waters, so you have to sift through sewage to get to the truth.

@Commenter 12: Thanks for your input. You’re wanting me to see that Trump is a dangerous sociopath, fascist, racist, and a tyrant. And that Trump is serving the same master as Biden.

And thus you feel puzzled and concerned for me to see posts on my timeline regarding Trump’s suspect actions. Thank you for your concern.

Shifting through the information sure is a quirky thing to do. I think that we all come to our own unique conclusions.

COVID-19: Straight Answers from Top Epidemiologist Who Predicted the Pandemic

Dan Buettner, Blue Zones Founder [Interview conducted on May 29, 2020. Published on June 6, 2020]

We’ve been told alternatively to not wear masks, to wear masks, to stay home, and to get out and reinvigorate the economy. Hydroxychloroquine and remdesivir both got our hopes up but now have largely fizzled. We’ve heard estimates that as many as two million Americans will die and now, with 100,000 deaths, we’ve heard we’re near the end of the crisis. Is a vaccination forthcoming?  How likely we to get the disease? What exactly should we do with our aging parents who are at the most risk?

To get some clear answers, I called Michael Osterholm, PhD, MPH, an internationally known expert in infectious disease epidemiology who has advised both Democratic and Republican Presidents. I know Dr. Osterholm from the University of Minnesota (our academic partner for the first Blue Zones explorations) where he serves as the Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy. He has also served as interim Director of the Centers for Disease Control (CDC).

Michael Osterholm, PhD, MPH

In short, Dr. Osterholm is arguably one of the most dependable, non-political sources for straight answers on what COVID-19 means to us and our world in the immediate future. In his 2017 book, Deadliest Enemy, he correctly foretells a global pandemic and offers the best strategy for fighting it now and avoiding it in the future.

Here are the highlights of our conversation. But if you really want to understand this disease, read the whole interview.  This disease may be the biggest event of our lifetimes.

  • 3 months ago, COVID-19 was not even in the top 75 causes of death in this country. Much of the last month, it was the #1 cause of death in this country. This is more remarkable than the 1918 Flu pandemic.
  • There is no scientific indication Covid-19 will disappear of its own accord.
  • If you’re under age 55, obesity is the #1 risk factor. So, eating the right diet, getting physical activity, and managing stress are some of the most important things you can do to protect yourself from the disease.
  • One of the best things we can do for our aging parents is to get them out into the fresh air, while maintaining physical (not social) distancing.
  • Wearing a cloth mask does not protect you much if you’re in close contact with someone who is COVID-19 contagious. It may give you 10 minutes, instead of five, to avoid contracting the disease.
  • We can expect COVID-19 to infect 60% – 70% of Americans. That’s around 200 million Americans.
  • We can expect between 800,000 and 1.6 million Americans to die in the next 18 months if we don’t have a successful vaccine.
  • There is no guarantee of an effective vaccination and even if we find one, it may only give short term protection.
  • Speeding a vaccination into production carries its own risks.
  • The darkest days are still ahead of us. We need moral leadership, the command leadership that doesn’t minimize what’s before us but allows everyone to see that we’re going to get through it.

Dan Buettner: The 1918 Spanish Flu broke out in the spring, kind of went semi-dormant in the summer and then came back with a lethal vengeance in the fall. Do you worry we might see a similar pattern with COVID-19?

Dr. Osterholm: One of the things we have to understand is that this virus is operating under the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology. It doesn’t in any way, shape, or form bend itself to public policy. Right now, about 5% of the US population has been infected; although it’s higher in places like New York City and some urban areas, across the world it’s about 5%.

A virus like this is transmitted by the respiratory route. I call it the leaky bucket virus because if there’s one little crack somewhere, it will get out and will infect people. Why is that important? Because we know that it will continue to infect people into 60 to 70% of the population over time. When this happens, it’s called herd immunity where these people are immune rods in the transmission reaction. That means that if I’m in contact with four people and three of them are already protected because they have antibody from having had the illness or been vaccinated, I don’t transmit to them. So the bottom-line message here is that this virus is going to keep transmitting to others until it hits that 60 or 70% level. And even then, it’s like a plane at 30,000 feet when the pilot announces we’re going to be dropping for landing. It doesn’t just suddenly land, it’ll just slow down.

So, we’re really confronted with having this virus in our population for months to years ahead if we don’t get a successful vaccine. So to answer your question of how we are going to get to that 60 or 70%, that’s what we don’t know. We’ve never had a coronavirus pandemic infection like this. It may have happened centuries ago, but we didn’t see it.

If it’s like influenza, of which there have been 10 such pandemics in the last 250 plus years, three started in our North American winter, two in our spring, three in our summer, and two in our fall. And in each instance when that happened, there was a wave that lasted several months, much like we’re seeing now around the world that seemed to disappear after several months. We don’t know what happens to the virus and it is not just based on season — it’s always just after a few months. In every instance the virus came back with a second wave. And when that happened, usually three to four months after that initial wave was over, it tended to be much, much more severe.

This is not just the 1918 pandemic because even in 2009 with H1N1, we saw that same thing happening with a much less severe pandemic. We saw an early Spring peak of cases when it first emerged in March, April, and May. Then it disappeared and came back in late August / early September and then took off with a peak in October. So that’s one model that could happen. But because this is a coronavirus [not an influenza virus], we don’t know what might happen for sure. Our group has actually put a paper on our website and the scenarios for what this might look like. We said, well, maybe it’s not going to be like a flu virus, maybe it’ll just be a slow burn and just keep doing what it’s doing now for potentially months and months to come if we don’t get a vaccine. Or we could see more of these kinds of peaks and valleys where basically certain areas light up for anywhere from a month to six weeks, and we work hard to suppress it, and then it disappears, but then it lights up somewhere else. And any of these are still possibilities.

But I can say with certainty, what I call the laws of virus physics, is that this is going to continue to transmit until we see a large part of the population infected. When you think about only 5% of this country’s been infected to date, and you understand the pain, the suffering, the death, and economic disruption that’s occurred with just 5%, then you can imagine what it’s going to take for us to get to 60 or 70%.

DB:  There’s no chance it will just mysteriously disappear after the first or second wave?

MO:  We have no reason to think that that will happen. Put it in this context: If we drop 1000 books, we can pretty well predict moment after moment after moment in every instance, where each book is going to go when it hits the floor. And the same thing is true with viruses like this. There’s nothing in our past history that would suggests that it would just suddenly disappear and die off. While it does change genetically over time, it’s still a very stable virus. There’s no evidence that somehow it might just mutate itself away. That’s just not going to happen.

DB:  So there’s a lot of hope around a vaccination. But we haven’t been able to find a vaccination for herpes or for the common cold. Is there any reason to have any greater hope for COVID-19 than we’ve had for these common diseases that have been around for decades or centuries?

MO:  The one thing we’ve done here is we’ve put probably the hundred best hockey players we can on the vaccine ice. And so, we’re getting lots of shots and goal and they’re as good as they’re going to get. So that part is very positive. The world has responded. There are over 120 vaccine candidates being evaluated right now. But to go to the heart of your question, will any of them make it in the goal? We don’t know. There are challenges with coronaviruses. We know that from two other coronavirus infections called SARS and MERS; in both instances, we were not able to  get easily and effectively applied vaccines.

We also know that it’s possible we could get some short-term immunity with these vaccines. That means you may not be able to develop what we call durable immunity that lasts a long time. That would be a real challenge, because then you’d have to keep re-vaccinating people if that would even work. The final piece is safety as we do have challenges with this virus. We know that there’s a condition called antibody dependent enhancement, which is a condition where you make just a little bit of antibody, but not enough to protect yourself. There’s also an immune enhancement phenomena where your body goes out of whack in terms of immune response. And so, one of the things that we are having to look at very carefully is the safety of these vaccines.

I would say at this point we can all be hopefully optimistic. But we know hope is not a strategy. I think the key message is that, first of all, is that if it does happen, it’s not going to happen soon. The idea that we’re going to have a readily available vaccine by the end of this year is just not realistic. And while we all want to be aspirational, we also have to be highly practical in how we plan. I think the second piece of it is that if we do get a vaccine, it’s not going to happen overnight in terms of making it or distributing it. There are 8 billion people in the world that want this vaccine right now. What happens if China has an effective vaccine before we do, are we going to get any of it? And so, there are still many challenges yet that are before us in terms of what happens even if we do get an effective vaccine.

DB:  Good answer. A Blue Zones core value is honoring older people. For people who have aging parents or relatives, do they need to sit at home by themselves for the next year? Or how do we best protect them?

MO:  This is a challenge that is as daunting as any I’ve ever faced in my public health career, including HIV / AIDS or any other condition. How do we try to protect those people who are at the highest risk of having a severe outcome? And right now, if you’re over age 65, you’re male, if you have underlying heart disease, hypertension, diabetes, renal disease, certain lung cancers or blood cancers or if you’re moderately to severely obese, then these are all risk factors for developing the disease. And I might add to the obesity piece, which is something very near to the hearts of your readers here — healthy lifestyles are so important in reducing your risk for severe disease. Right now, among those people who we see having severe disease under age 55, obesity is the number one risk factor for [COVID-19].For people under age 55, obesity is the number one risk factor for severe COVID-19.CLICK TO TWEET

So what do we do to protect these people?  We don’t have a ready answer. Locking people up to bubble them from this virus for 18 or more months, or however long it might take to get a vaccine, is a severe challenge. Mental health-wise — we have to understand the issues. I categorically reject the concept of social distancing. It’s physical distancing. I hope we never social distance, ever.

Minimizing your contact with large groups, numbers of people, will surely help. We know that you can reduce transmission that way. Beyond that, wearing a mask will reduce your risk and not in a major way, but it’s another possible means of reducing transmission. But in the end, this is why we so desperately need to get a vaccine.

DB:  Let’s say you have two 80-year-old parents who live in a house by themselves. What do they do for the next year?

MO:  Again, I would limit the number of contacts they have outside the home. If they are out in public, they can wear a mask but that’s of limited protective value. When outside, stay away from large groups. Don’t spend lots of time next to someone. This virus doesn’t magically jump between two people — it’s time and dose.Don’t spend lots of time next to someone. COVID-19 doesn’t magically jump between two people — it’s time and dose.CLICK TO TWEET

For example, if you’re riding in a car with someone who’s infected, you may become infected yourself by just breathing their air within 10 minutes. If they have a cloth mask on, then that may move it to 20 minutes but it doesn’t eliminate it. The same thing is true if you’re going to a large social event, like a church event. The problem is that this virus is transmitted largely by what we call aerosols, those little things that we breathe, and we put out hundreds of thousands of these every minute when we talk.

If you’re in church setting, particularly where there’s singing, we know that there have been a number of outbreaks that have occurred where the source has been someone infected in a church setting. So, should they go to church on a Sunday? That’s a real challenge. Again, if they’re at increased risk for severe disease, I have to tell them that they are taking this risk on. This has been a very difficult part of this pandemic to try to provide meaningful and thoughtful risk-based information that doesn’t scare people needlessly, but at the same time, doesn’t put them in harm’s way for what can happen.

To give you some perspective on what this virus has done: 85 days ago, this virus as a cause of death was not even the top 75 causes of death in this country. Much of the last month, it was the number one cause of death in this country. Nothing has done that since the 1918 influenza. That gives you some sense of the impact that this has had.

DB:  To summarize a few things that you’ve said: we’re going to herd immunity of 60 to 70%, and it’s people over 65 who are at highest risk. It almost seems like a death sentence to let your 80-year-old parents go outside over the next few years.

MO:  The message I think we have to say is being outside is really a very important thing [for Covid-19]. It’s getting fresh air, and being able to move and exercise. It turns out that being in the outside environment dissipates these aerosols very, very quickly. Of all the outbreaks that happened in Wuhan, China where people get together with one infected individual and then transmission occurred — all but one of them occurred inside.Being outside is really a very important thing for Covid-19 because you’re getting fresh air and movement. It also turns out that being in the outside environment dissipates these aerosols very, very quickly.CLICK TO TWEET

So, I think this is the time of year when people need to take advantage of parks and walks separated by 6, 10, 12 feet knowing they can feel very safe about that. It’s time and dose, so you’re not going to get infected by passing somebody on the path. That’s the good message: Get people out, get them exercising, and take them out.

The challenge is going to family events. We’ve had a number of outbreaks where funerals, weddings, and family events in general were the source because people congregated together in tight spaces for a long period of time. But if you’re not doing that, then I think the risk is actually quite small.

DB:  Another one of our core observations from Blue Zones research is that people living long lives are eating more plant-based foods. What role do you think the industrialized meat production plays in the emergence of diseases like COVID-19?

MO:  Well, one of the things that is very clear is that the human-animal interface is a very, very important source for these infectious agents. When you’re looking at bushmeat or something from the wild that may come from any number of exotic animal species, in many parts of the world this is an important source of protein for families. One of the things we realize though, is in the process of contact with that animal — cleaning it, preparing it for food, consumption — these all contain exposure to blood or other body fluids that might transmit any number of different viruses or agents. We know certain kinds of bats are much more likely to harbor some of these exotic viruses that don’t kill the bats but can transmit it to humans or other animals.

So the wild bushmeat is a very important area, in the kinds of market situations we see largely in Asia but also in other places around the world. Africa also can play a role, as we saw with the Ebola virus. So that’s the one area with animal contact that’s by far the highest risk.

In terms of domesticated animals like cattle, hogs, pigs, etcetera — the risk there is just common food-borne disease where we continue to see huge challenges there like with salmonella and e. coli. These all play an important role in human disease and particularly today in antibiotic resistance transfer because we’re seeing the increasing use of antibiotics in raising these animals. Because they too are suffering from infectious diseases, and the more antibiotics used the more antibiotic resistance you get, which means the more antibiotics you use. So we don’t see the exotic viruses for the most part with domesticated animals except for very occasionally.

DB:  I read the theory that the 1918 flu virus mutated in a pig and then jumped to humans.

MO:  We don’t know the exact origin of the 1918 virus. We call it a swine flu because the genes on it look very much like it probably spent time at a pig. Pigs are very important animals in making viruses for humans that can be very dangerous. The reason for that is that flu viruses originate in aquatic birds, particularly ducks and so forth. These viruses can very rarely jump to humans, but typically humans can’t then transmit them on to others.

But when a pig becomes infected with one of those bird viruses, they also have the ability to get infected with human viruses because of the receptor sites in their lung cells. And when those two viruses get together in a pig cell, they often swap out genes, which then makes a virus that’s unique, new, and now able to infect humans. Pandemics begin when a brand-new virus infects a human who also at that point is able to transmit the virus to other humans. So, it’s not just to humans, but transmission by humans. The 1918 virus is one that we’ve resurrected because we didn’t even have the ability to grow viruses back in 1918. We didn’t really understand them. But now we can come back to it and say that this virus likely emerged out of a pig source with a human virus involved and then somehow it jumped into humans. But where it jumped into humans is still a question that we all have.

DB:  Great answer. Let’s say you have the full support of the president and a sufficient budget. If you were willing and took on the job of “COVID-19 czar,” what strategy would you pursue at this point?

MO:  The first thing I would do is identify an FDR or a Winston Churchill. Because I know that over the months ahead, we’re going to have a great deal of difficulty working through this pandemic. The darkest days are still ahead of us. And we need that moral leadership, that command leadership that doesn’t minimize what’s before us but allows everyone to see that we’re going to get through it. And we will — we’re going to get through this. We need that kind of leadership. It’s not a partisan statement. It’s not anything about the politics of the day, it’s just what we as a society are going to need to get through. That may seem simple, but that is right up there with the magic wand issue of also having a vaccine.

I would continue to push forward everything I could on vaccine research and development, looking at drug therapies, and also doing anything I could to improve on the production of protective equipment for healthcare workers. Right now, over 600 healthcare workers in this country have died as a result of Covid-19 infection acquired on the job. They are now on the frontline of this war against this virus. And because of our lack of preparedness, we don’t have enough respirator masks and the kinds of things that they should have on to protect themselves when working with patients. They don’t have all the protective equipment they need. And our consumption of it has been so high just trying to provide care to the patients, that we haven’t been able to get ahead. We’re always falling further and further behind what’s needed. That has to be a very high priority.

Finally, I would really work on and develop the kinds of protocols and information sources for the public to better understand what’s going on. Right now, I think the public feels whipsawed back and forth. What is my risk? The questions you asked me — how do I protect my aging parents? Is it safe to go to work? What do I have to be concerned about with my kids in school? We really need to have as much information in the hands of the public. We can’t answer all the tough questions. We can’t solve all the tough problems, but we can be a partner in helping the public understand what we know and what we don’t know. I call it straight talk. Not happy talk, just straight talk. If I were czar, I would make sure that all the people that I worked with would espouse that very important goal.

DB:  Two final questions: What do you think the best-case scenario and the worst-case scenario are for COVID-19?

MO:  My worst-case scenario is that we see it suddenly start to disappear from this country right now. And people say what, how could that be worst case? That’s the worst because if that happens, it means that it’s not disappearing due to human behavior or anything we’ve put in place to reduce transmission. That would tell me that this is now acting like a flu virus even though it is a coronavirus. If it looks like a pandemic flu virus, then that would suggest that in late summer or early fall we could have a very significant wave of activity that would overwhelm society as we know it, healthcare wise and otherwise. That would be really a very unfortunate situation.

My best scenario is that this just continues to burn on — it’s with us, but it doesn’t ever overtake us. We learn to live with the virus, and we are able to suppress it without destroying society as we know it. And we get a vaccine in 12 more months, and we’re able to get that into people and it works effectively, at least for the short term. So we’re somewhere between those two. What we don’t understand is exactly where yet.

DB:  In that worst-case scenario, given the fact we have to get to some form of herd immunity – can you estimate how many Americans die?

MO:  Well, I think you can do your own math in the sense that if 5% of the population has been infected to date and we have 100,000 deaths, it’s a 12-fold increase to get to 60 or 70%. Now, some of these people will be at lower risk of dying than the people in the first 100,000 deaths, because we are, in a sense, burning through long term care facilities right now in a really terribly, terribly tragic way. But they’re developing herd immunity in many of these facilities because there have been so many cases. So, the death rate per hundred thousand people will drop as we have more people infected. But because we have so many more people that are in that top of the pyramid, that smaller part of the population distribution, we still will have lots of deaths. So it would not be unreasonable to say based on what I just shared with you with 100,000 deaths for 5% of the population infected, that somewhere between 800,000 and 1.6 million people could easily die from this over the course of the next 12 to 18 months if we don’t have a successful vaccine.

DB: Well, that is scary. There’s this strongly held view by some that we should follow a modified Sweden model. They point out that there’s all this death and pain and suffering from a collapsed economy. And that if we’re going to herd immunity and as long as the healthcare system can absorb the cases, we should just speed to herd immunity. What’s wrong with that thinking?

MO:  First of all, the Sweden model no longer exists. It was a myth to begin with. And it now is even being heavily criticized within Sweden to the point where there’s actually a criminal investigation going on about what did or didn’t happen in their long-term care. Sweden has one of the highest death rates in the world in terms of number of people that have died per population. They have not advanced any meaningful way towards a herd immunity level and are not much higher than the United States is right now. And they recognize in retrospect that maybe they didn’t accomplish all that they thought they were going to.

The adjoining countries of Denmark, Finland, and Norway – who did go into more extensive lockdown activities — have kept their death rates significantly lower than Sweden has. And they’re bringing back the economy, very similar to Sweden is doing. So, I think that one of the problems we have is everybody seems to have a magic answer for what’s going on. And my response is that it might be a magic answer today, but let’s wait a week and see what happens. And that has happened time and time again. We’ve heard about how China was successful in tamping down that initial outbreak in Wuhan and throughout Hubei. But now we see they’re having a resurgence of infection with large parts of Wuhan now being tested again and other major outbreaks in China. So everyone may have a perfect solution today, but following my leaky bucket concept it may not be that way tomorrow at all.

DB:  So we should be continuing to lockdown and wear masks and proceed with caution.

MO:  I think one of the things we have to understand is we can’t just lockdown. I look at this with two guardrails. On one side is a guardrail where we are locked down for 18 months to try to get us all to a vaccine without anyone having to get infected or die. We will destroy not just the economy but society as we know that if we try to do that. The other guardrail is to just let it go and see what happens. We will see the kinds of deaths we just talked about and we will see healthcare systems that will literally implode. And not just for COVID-19 care, but for heart attack, stroke, and all other causes of disease in our communities. That’s not acceptable.

And so we’ve got to thread the rope through the needle in the middle. The very question you asked me about, what do we recommend to our older citizens of this country — our parents, our grandparents — what do we tell them? That’s the part that we haven’t done a good job of addressing. We have to learn not only how to die with this virus, which tragically we’ve had to do, but we also have to learn how to live with it.

Those are the kinds of discussions we need to have now. If we’re not going to lock up and we’re not going to open up willy-nilly, then what is the approach? And what we’ve been trying to do is facilitate those very discussions so that people can make hard choices. What are the things that we can do to change society that will help us maintain society to the best we know but at the same time also reduce transmission? That’s a key activity right now that public health needs to be playing a very important role in.

DB:  What a phenomenal and articulate informed answer, Michael.

MO:  Well it’s all I know, and it’s where we’re at.

DB:  It’s not binary. We need to find the Goldilocks — the sweet spot.

MO:  And then consensus. I see what this is doing to our country — it’s tearing it apart. I’ve said this to others that for years and years, I could never stand what it must have been like to be a father who sends half his sons off to the north to fight and half to the south during the Civil War. Today, I’m seeing families going through exactly that over these issues. It’s really tragic. What is happening with COVID-19 is that it’s not just about the severe disease, but it’s also exacerbating many underlying issues we have in this country today. I think this is a real point of learning for us.

DB:  I have a final personal question. My 60th birthday is coming up. I live on Lake of the Isles and I was thinking of putting an open-air dining room up for a dinner party of 10 people or so outside. Is that a bad idea?

MO:  If you’re outside, the aerosols dissipate much, much faster. So any air movement at all will help move those. Again, I can’t say that it’s perfectly safe. Remember the choir participant who sang for two hours and transmitted the virus to 42 out of 60 people.

But exposure as a dose is a combination of time and amount. So, if you’re in a situation where you are basically spending an hour or two in an outdoor area, it’s likely that even if somebody was infected there, you wouldn’t have the same dose at all. As I pointed out before, virtually all the outbreaks we’ve seen have occurred indoors.

DB:  Okay, so I can go ahead or are you advising against it?

MO:  [laughing] Well I can’t say yes or no, I’m giving you the best advice I have. We’re all looking for the Holy Grail right now.

DB:  Well, this has been fantastic. You’re always busy, so thank you for taking the time to educate us. How can we learn more on this pandemic and for what the future holds?

MO:  My book Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs was published in 2017. Chapter 13, ironically, is about SARS and MERS, and about why coronaviruses are going to keep being a huge challenge. Chapter 19 is about what an influenza pandemic would look like, and if you just cross the word out influenza and put in coronavirus, it details what’s happening now — 25% unemployment, no summer baseball season, and what we’re facing now.

Hmmmm…I don’t think that I would agree with his statement below. With better prevention (load up on Vitamin D/C and zinc) and treatment (hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin/zinc, vitamin D/C/zinc, etc), my feeling is one of doubt/skepticism.

Michael Osterholm, PhD, MPH, an internationally known expert in infectious disease epidemiology who has advised both Democratic and Republican Presidents:

“So it would not be unreasonable to say based on what I just shared with you with 100,000 deaths for 5% of the population infected, that somewhere between 800,000 and 1.6 million people could easily die from this over the course of the next 12 to 18 months if we don’t have a successful vaccine.”



“I would continue to push forward everything I could on vaccine research and development, looking at drug therapies, and also doing anything I could to improve on the production of protective equipment for healthcare workers. “

Skilled Nursing Facility Asymptomatic Achilles Heel

I had a brief look at the study you just linked. Some observations I would make:

1. It looks at an older population at a skilled nursing facility. How can we rule out co-morbidities and weaker immune system/vitamin D levels?

2. When I look at their statement and their references for:
“A key factor in the transmissibility of Covid-19 is the high level of SARS-CoV-2 shedding in the upper respiratory tract,1 even among presymptomatic patients, which distinguishes it from SARS-CoV-1, where replication occurs mainly in the lower respiratory tract.2 Viral loads with SARS-CoV-1, which are associated with symptom onset, peak a median of 5 days later than viral loads with SARS-CoV-2, which makes symptom-based detection of infection more effective in the case of SARS CoV-1.3” – I just don’t see any hard scientific studies proving what they just said.

Reference 1 is preprint, so not good science yet.
Reference 2 is back in 2004 for SARS1.
Reference 3 is an observational cohort study in 2 hospitals of a small sample size of 30 patients.
Reference 5 was again in a skilled nursing facility (related to the same one as study 1?) and what I interpret as having a non-conclusion ending (“most likely contributed to…”). “Most likely” is not very conclusive:

“Rapid and widespread transmission of SARS-CoV-2 was demonstrated in this skilled nursing facility. More than half of residents with positive test results were asymptomatic at the time of testing and most likely contributed to transmission. Infection-control strategies focused solely on symptomatic residents were not sufficient to prevent transmission after SARS-CoV-2 introduction into this facility.”

And given WHO’s June 8 initial press release that there’s no asymptomatic transmission, then I might even say that Reference 5 (“most likely contributed to transmission”) would fall in line to what WHO just retracted but contrary to BC Chief Medical Health Officer and the asymptomatic study with 455 folks.

I haven’t had time to thoroughly critique the study you just linked, but my sense is that if it has any applicability, it is only for older populations in skilled nursing facilities.