Asymptomatic Carriers Do Not Transmit

BREAKING NEWS FROM WHO (which confirms existing study saying that asymptomatic carriers don’t transmit)

Please folks: covid is not transmitted by asymptomatic carriers of SARS-CoV-2. You can relax around people who are healthy, who are not sneezing (even then a sneeze doesn’t mean SARS-CoV-2, it could be an allergic sneeze, a cold sneeze, etc) and you don’t have to veer 6 feet away from someone walking past you.

At WHO’s latest June 8, 2020 press release, Maria Van Kerkhove, head of the emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, says this:

33:33-34:35 “The second part of your question is, what proportion of asymptomatic individuals actually transmit?

So the way that we look at that, is we look at, these individuals need to be followed carefully. Um, over the course of when they’re detected and looking at secondary transmission.

We have a number of reports from countries who are doing very detailed contact tracing. They’re following asymptomatic cases. They’re following contacts. And they’re not finding secondary transmission onward. It’s very rare.
And much of that is not published in the literature.”



“It still appears to be rare that an asymptomatic individual actually transmits onward.”

34:38-34:51 What we really want to be focussed on is following the symptomatic cases. If we followed all of the symptomatic cases because we know that this is a respiratory pathogen, it passes from an individual through infectious droplets.”

http://terrance.who.int/mediacentre/presser/WHO-AUDIO_Emergencies_Coronavirus_Press_Conference_08JUN2020.mp3

34:45-34:51. “…we know that this is a respiratory pathogen, it passes from an individual through infectious droplets.”

Commenter 1: Asymptomatic I agree. However what Bonnie Henry has said is that the pre-symptomatic and early symptomatic phase is sometimes hard to tell, and it is longer than with a flu.

Commenter 6: @Commenter 1: Bonnie Henry is just a good implementer of the new world order agenda and NOT a reliable source of accurate medical and statistical evidence. Look at Sweden, look at Taiwan, look at Japan, at Belarus. Even that Princess Cruise topped out at .1% death rate and that was amongst a boat with some of the most vulnerable.

Commenter 11: Bonnie Henry works for the vaccine industry

@Commenter 1: I think my first comment might address the issue of pre-symptomatic and early symptomatic perhaps.

“… we know that this is a respiratory pathogen, it passes from an individual through infectious droplets.”

It seems to me then unless you have infectious droplets (not breathing on anyone, you have to actually sneeze on someone), then pre-symptomatic is out of the picture.

Commenter 5: Exactly, someone can cough or sneeze on you before they have symptoms, or with really mild symptoms & infect you. I don’t think they have a clear idea how common or uncommon this is yet. Without accurate testing it’s really hard to know. But Dr. Henry has talked about new research that shows a “high viral load” in some people with little to no symptoms. I think they only discovered this because they’re doing systematic testing on essential workers, like healthcare, and at outbreak sites.

@Commenter 5: These hypotheses about pre-symptomatic / paucisymptomatic transmission is a mystery to me. I don’t have enough information to say anything about the truth of it.

Commenter 5 @Commenter 1: Agreed! They need to do more research! This is still all very new.

Here’s some more transcription of the June 8 press release from Maria von Kerkhove:

Journalist:
31:42 “It’s a question about asymptomatic transmission, if I may. I know that the WHO has previous … that there’s no documented cases of this. We had a story out of Singapore today saying that at least half the new cases they’re seeing have no symptoms. And I’m wondering if it’s possible that this has a bigger role than the WHO initially thought in propagating a pandemic. And what the policy implications of that might be? Thank you.”

Maria von Kerkhove:
32:20-33:32 “One is the number of cases that are being reported, that are being reported as asymptomatic. Um and so, we hear from a number of countries that x number, x percentage of them are reported as not having symptoms. Or that they are in their pre-symptomatic phase which means it’s a few days before they actually develop severe symptoms.

In a number of countries, when we go back, and we discuss with them, one, how are these asymptomatic cases being identified? Many of them are being identified through contact tracing. And so is which we would want to see. You have a known case, you find your contact, they’re already in quarantine hopefully, and some of them are tested. And then you pick up people who may have asymptomatic, or no symptoms, or even mild symptoms.

The other thing we’re finding is that when we actually go back and see how many of them were truly asymptomatic, we find out that many really have mild disease, very mild disease. They’re not, quote unquote “covid” symptoms. Meaning they may not developed fever yet, they may not have had a significant cough, they may not have shortness of breath. But some may have mild disease.

Having said that we do know there may be some people who are truly asymptomatic and PCR positive.”

===

I’m not sure if there’s anything useful there or how to interpret what she said for presymptomatic /paucisymptomatic transmission.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znqyleC0eEE&feature=youtu.be

Commenter 2: Sad to see BC Ferries announce you have to wear a mask on the ferries now … beyond ridiculous.

@Commenter 2: The restriction of our freedom to travel is starting. We must not allow this to happen.

https://www.change.org/p/canadians-impeach-trudeau-motion-of-no-confidence

Commenter 1: So I believe that “droplet transmission” is a little more complex than what you are describing. It isn’t only a cough or sneeze. Droplet transmission occurs with talking, singing, chanting, loud talking, as well as contact surfaces where someone has coughed or sneezed or has been singing, and then someone touches those surfaces and touches their face without washing hands etc. This type of transmission happens mostly when in close contact and the transmission increases with time, environment, and with specific viral load that the person has, which is also variable. So if someone is in their first 5-7 days of being infected where they either are pre-symptomatic or have mild symptoms that could feel like allergies, then if you are sitting a foot away from someone and talking closely with them, or singing or shouting there are lots of tiny droplets that can fall all over the place. It is the incubation period of this thing that is so tricky. Generally if you are about 6 feet from people then droplet transmission generally doesn’t occur. If you are outside even less possible. With less time even less possible.

@Commenter 1: Good points. Let’s see what other information is available to address your points.

Regarding: “Droplet transmission occurs with talking, singing, chanting, loud talking, as well as contact surfaces where someone has coughed or sneezed or has been singing”

Let’s have a look at this opinion by Ed Ballard, a professional opera, concert, and choral singer. He writes:

“And, despite the fact that Freiburg has since withdrawn the guidelines and released new advice that singing can be safe, provided social distancing is in place, the old guidelines are still being shared.

TWO misconceptions continue to dominate. First, that singing produces large quantities of aerosol particles, which would soon engulf any enclosed space. Second, that singing projects both droplet and aerosol particles at a far greater rate than other activities.

Singing may, indeed, produce aerosol particles. But, according to the World Health Organization (WHO), Covid-19 is not an airborne virus. “In an analysis of 75,465 Covid-19 cases in China”, one of its scientific briefs states, “airborne transmission was not reported.” “There is no evidence of transmission of the virus as an airborne pathogen,” the WHO’s technical lead on infection prevention and control, Dr Benedetta Allegranzi, has said, despite theories based on lab simulations. Droplet and contact transmission remains the WHO’s official position, as it does of Public Health England.”

So, here Ballad feels that even though singing produces aerosol particles, he doesn’t not equate these aerosol particles to droplets that can pass on transmission.

https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2020/5-june/comment/opinion/it-is-time-to-sing-again

@Commenter 1: Continuing from the article:
“The idea that singing leads to a vastly increased projection of either droplets or aerosols has also been called into question.

A recent study by the Institute of Fluid Mechanics and Aerodynamics, in Munich, looked specifically at the disturbance of air caused by singing and wind instruments.

The study found that it was “only set in motion in the immediate vicinity of the mouth when singing”. The experiments that they carried out showed that “at a distance of around 0.5 m, almost no air movement can be detected, regardless of how loud the sound was and what pitch was sung”.

Studies commissioned by the Vienna Philharmonic and the Bamberg Symphony Orchestra reached the same conclusion for orchestral players. All the studies stress the importance of social distancing. But the singing, or playing, itself was not the problem.

Professional choirs in Europe have been quick to adapt. Opera companies have begun announcing full autumn seasons, and concerts and recitals, behind closed doors, are already taking place, even in London. Clearly, there is already scope for voices to be lifted in song.”

@Commenter 1: From the Institute of Fluid Mechanics and Aerodynamics study:

“The low spread of air movement is not surprising, since singing does not expel a large volume of air in jerks like coughing or sneezing [6, 7]. Rather, the art of singing is to move as little air as possible and still produce a beautiful and powerful sound.”



“The fact is that the 1 µm droplets in the aerosol have already completely evaporated after fractions of a second [11, 12]. Droplets with a diameter of 10 μm are completely evaporated after about 1 second (at 50% relative humidity) and very large droplets sink quickly to the ground and evaporate [13, 14, 15].

It is very important to realize that those experiments, in which the ability of viruses to reproduce in aerosols was studied, were carried out in a laboratory condition that is completely unrealistic in practice.[16]

There the rate of evaporation was in equilibrium with the rate of condensation. These conditions may apply in the steam bath, the shower and in some kitchens without proper steam extraction and therefore in some tiny restaurants, but not in our natural environment.”

https://www.unibw.de/lrt7-en/making_music_during_the_sars-cov-2_pandemic.pdf

@Commenter 1: “So if someone is in their first 5-7 days of being infected where they either are pre-symptomatic or have mild symptoms that could feel like allergies, then if you are sitting a foot away from someone and talking closely with them, or singing or shouting there are lots of tiny droplets that can fall all over the place. It is the incubation period of this thing that is so tricky.”

This pre-symptomatic/paucisymptomatic thing is a mystery. I don’t have enough information to add anything useful at this point.

Commenter 3: All part of the control agenda now open knowledge. You can read about it. Not in the msm, probably, though. It will end ONLY when people become aware and take back our power. BTW the WHO is not trusworthy…. understatement. Covid 19 is history. What makse people sick is either regular flu or the effect on oxygen by 5G in people with toxins in their bodies.

Commenter 4: There has been a lot of debate among scientists on what’s going on with covid and what is the best policy. Unfortunately, only one side has been presented in the media. That leads many people to believe that’s the truth.

@Commenter 4: Well, hopefully we can get a more whole picture with we the peoples’ dialogues and sharing.

Commenter 7: Unfortunately we will be seeing the same misinformation when the natural flu/cold season comes in late autumn and everyone will freak out again

Commenter 8: Will they please tell Dr Tam and Dr Bonnie and all the other Drs running the show across Canada! I’m so tired of the lies

Commenter 9: OVER IT … QUIT BEING AFRAID … Even the people that set the panic in motion did NOT social distance …. My GOD … Please get it … 🙏🙏🙏

Commenter 10: And today the W.H.O. walks back an earlier assertion that asymptomatic transmission is ‘very rare.’ ……………….(seems she was answering a question, and her answer was taken out of context. <;~\ ….

”A top expert at the World Health Organization on Tuesday walked back her earlier assertion that transmission of the coronavirus by people who did not have symptoms was “very rare.”

Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, who made the original comment at a W.H.O. briefing on Monday, said that it was based on just two or three studies and that it was a “misunderstanding” to say asymptomatic transmission was rare globally.

“I was just responding to a question; I wasn’t stating a policy of W.H.O. or anything like that,” she said.

Dr. Van Kerkhove said that estimates of transmission from people without symptoms come primarily from models, which may not provide an accurate representation. “That’s a big open question, and that remains an open question,” she said.

Scientists had sharply criticized the W.H.O. for creating confusion on the issue, given the far-ranging public policy implications. Governments around the world have recommended face masks and social-distancing measures because of the risk of asymptomatic transmission.

A range of scientists said Dr. Van Kerkhove’s comments did not reflect the current scientific research.

“All of the best evidence suggests that people without symptoms can and do readily spread SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19,” scientists at the Harvard Global Health Institute said in a statement on Tuesday. “Communicating preliminary data about key aspects of the coronavirus without much context can have tremendous negative impact on how the public and policymakers respond to the pandemic.”

A widely cited paper published in April suggested that people are most infectious about two days before the onset of symptoms and estimated that 44 percent of new infections were a result of transmission from people who were not yet showing symptoms.

Dr. Van Kerkhove and other W.H.O. experts reiterated the importance of physical distancing, personal hygiene, testing, tracing, quarantine and isolation to control the pandemic.

The debate over transmission erupted a day after the W.H.O. said that cases had reached a new single-day global high: 136,000 on Sunday, with three-quarters in just 10 countries, mostly in the Americas and South Asia. The virus has already sickened more than 7 million people worldwide and killed at least 405,400, according to a New York Times database.

https://www.statnews.com/…/who-comments…/…

@Commenter 10: Sounds like you’re on the cautious side about zero asymptomatic transmission and are wanting people to know that things are heating up in India.

Commenter 10: Hmm, actually no. I was out every day, doing shopping for 8 fearful ones , and foodbank runs for 25 throughout the whole isolation time,, but I carried a mask for times of closer contact, and alcohol for contact situations. I’d be classified as high risk throughout, with precautions. <;~]

@Commenter 10: Oh, I must have misinterpreted your comment when you started including the stuff about India and the looming shortages of hospital beds and the quotes, “This is just the beginning of the coming disaster” and “Only God can save us.”

Commenter 10: Heating up in India? I have no idea. Between faulty testing and false reporting, who knows? One must use their spidey senses. <;~\

Commenter 10: You’ll not that I already shifted the article I quoted, to one that focused on the question at hand. Why not focus on that? <;~l

Commenter 10: ahaha,, sorry,, I shoulda looked at what I dragged and pasted,, I’ll edit that out. <;~D

Commenter 10: There’s reports of a serious spike in Arizona as well, but who knows,, and I don’t meant the W.H.O.!! ….One must take most everything with a grain of salt these daze,,, maybe put the salt with some nice fresh water, and electolyze it… oh waidaminute, I’m doing that already! <;~D

Commenter 10 [Edited out India stuff]: And today the W.H.O. walks back an earlier assertion that asymptomatic transmission is ‘very rare.’ ……………….(seems she was answering a question, and her answer was taken out of context. <;~\ ….

”A top expert at the World Health Organization on Tuesday walked back her earlier assertion that transmission of the coronavirus by people who did not have symptoms was “very rare.”

Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, who made the original comment at a W.H.O. briefing on Monday, said that it was based on just two or three studies and that it was a “misunderstanding” to say asymptomatic transmission was rare globally.

“I was just responding to a question; I wasn’t stating a policy of W.H.O. or anything like that,” she said.

Dr. Van Kerkhove said that estimates of transmission from people without symptoms come primarily from models, which may not provide an accurate representation. “That’s a big open question, and that remains an open question,” she said.

Scientists had sharply criticized the W.H.O. for creating confusion on the issue, given the far-ranging public policy implications. Governments around the world have recommended face masks and social-distancing measures because of the risk of asymptomatic transmission.

A range of scientists said Dr. Van Kerkhove’s comments did not reflect the current scientific research.

“All of the best evidence suggests that people without symptoms can and do readily spread SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19,” scientists at the Harvard Global Health Institute said in a statement on Tuesday. “Communicating preliminary data about key aspects of the coronavirus without much context can have tremendous negative impact on how the public and policymakers respond to the pandemic.”

A widely cited paper published in April suggested that people are most infectious about two days before the onset of symptoms and estimated that 44 percent of new infections were a result of transmission from people who were not yet showing symptoms.

Dr. Van Kerkhove and other W.H.O. experts reiterated the importance of physical distancing, personal hygiene, testing, tracing, quarantine and isolation to control the pandemic.

The debate over transmission erupted a day after the W.H.O. said that cases had reached a new single-day global high: 136,000 on Sunday, with three-quarters in just 10 countries, mostly in the Americas and South Asia. The virus has already sickened more than 7 million people worldwide and killed at least 405,400, according to a New York Times database.

https://www.statnews.com/…/who-comments…/…

Here’s the study that shows within a sample of 455 asymptomatic covid positive folks, there was zero transmission to others:

“The median contact time for patients was four days and that for family members was five days. Cardiovascular disease accounted for 25% among original diseases of patients. Apart from hospital staffs, both patients and family members were isolated medically. During the quarantine, seven patients plus one family member appeared new respiratory symptoms, where fever was the most common one. The blood counts in most contacts were within a normal range. All CT images showed no sign of COVID-19 infection. No severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infections was detected in 455 contacts by nucleic acid test.

Conclusion
In summary, all the 455 contacts were excluded from SARS-CoV-2 infection and we conclude that the infectivity of some asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carriers might be weak.”

https://www.sciencedirect.com/…/pii/S0954611120301669

Commenter 10: ”Other unknowns the WHO experts raised Tuesday include how asymptomatic or presymptomatic people are spreading the virus if they are not coughing — it could be that they still expel infectious droplets through singing, yelling, or even talking — as well as the percentage of all Covid-19 cases that are asymptomatic. One recent paper estimated that 40 to 45% of cases might be asymptomatic, though others have pegged that figure at closer to 20% or even lower.” ……………..–Unknowns–, as they say,, still a lot of questions,, more than answers. ……..The thing that doesn’t add up to me in the articles you quote….. A senator thanks trump for saving her…… from WHAT, if it’s no worse then flu? Why would donald be trumping a cure, if there isn’t an issue? ……and what would or wouldn’t be spread if not by those who are asymptomatic?… and what would any of this matter if it’s all milder than the flu? …..then again,, once you know more closely of local healthy 50y.o.’s who barely survive an attack of gawdknowswhat… then the questions really start flying. <;~l

@Commenter 10: Regarding singing, yelling, even talking, I refer to a recent opinion by Ed Ballard, a professional opera, concert, and choral singer. He refers to a study done by the Institute of Fluid Mechanics and Aerodynamics, in Munich. He writes:

“And, despite the fact that Freiburg has since withdrawn the guidelines and released new advice that singing can be safe, provided social distancing is in place, the old guidelines are still being shared.

TWO misconceptions continue to dominate. First, that singing produces large quantities of aerosol particles, which would soon engulf any enclosed space. Second, that singing projects both droplet and aerosol particles at a far greater rate than other activities.

Singing may, indeed, produce aerosol particles. But, according to the World Health Organization (WHO), Covid-19 is not an airborne virus. “In an analysis of 75,465 Covid-19 cases in China”, one of its scientific briefs states, “airborne transmission was not reported.” “There is no evidence of transmission of the virus as an airborne pathogen,” the WHO’s technical lead on infection prevention and control, Dr Benedetta Allegranzi, has said, despite theories based on lab simulations. Droplet and contact transmission remains the WHO’s official position, as it does of Public Health England.”



So, here Ballad feels that even though singing produces aerosol particles, he doesn’t not equate these aerosol particles to droplets that can pass on transmission.

https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/…/it-is-time-to-sing-again

Regarding your question of what Trump saved State Rep Karen Whitsett from, could you direct that question to that thread and then I can address it there?

This thread is concerning the asymptomatic transmission of SARS-CoV-2.

Commenter 9 @Commenter 10: It’s because the cure was the medicine easily given and Cheap btw rather them throwing people into medical comas and putting them on ventilators that actually thereby causing people to pass away … Good thing she just had the medicine …

Commenter 9 @Commenter 10: In fact there are doctors that had to ” sneak ” that medicine to their patients because they were told not to use it ( unheard of ) and ALL their patients got well within 24 to 48 hours … How political can you get when you use lives to try to discredit anyone ??? 😳

Commenter 10: Have you ever been sitting in the sun,talking to someone, and see little bits of sputum fly through the air? These are droplets. They are common. They happen all the time….on to your face, or the food in front of you, or the surfaces you touch.. …The only difference between aerosol particles and droplets is their weight, and how fast they drop. …One could say that droplets are just as prone to pass a ‘flu’, than aerosol, in fact they’re much more effective at that in some situations. There’s no point in arguing potato, potatoe,, when minds are made up. Take care.

@Commenter 10: Yes, thanks for pointing that out about small liquid stuff coming out of one’s mouth sometimes. You are referring to them as droplets, and I imagine that others would also.

In terms of differences between aerosol particles and droplets being their weight and how fast they drop, that seems reasonable.

I think that that you might be saying that you’re feeling frustrated that your views are not being accepted and have reached your extend for patience. You’re welcome to continue adding your respectful contributions to any of my threads.

Here’s some results from the Institute of Fluid Mechanics and Aerodynamics study. I don’t know if they’re useful.

“The low spread of air movement is not surprising, since singing does not expel a large volume of air in jerks like coughing or sneezing [6, 7]. Rather, the art of singing is to move as little air as possible and still produce a beautiful and powerful sound.”



“The fact is that the 1 µm droplets in the aerosol have already completely evaporated after fractions of a second [11, 12]. Droplets with a diameter of 10 μm are completely evaporated after about 1 second (at 50% relative humidity) and very large droplets sink quickly to the ground and evaporate [13, 14, 15].
It is very important to realize that those experiments, in which the ability of viruses to reproduce in aerosols was studied, were carried out in a laboratory condition that is completely unrealistic in practice.[16]

There the rate of evaporation was in equilibrium with the rate of condensation. These conditions may apply in the steam bath, the shower and in some kitchens without proper steam extraction and therefore in some tiny restaurants, but not in our natural environment.”

https://www.unibw.de/lrt7-en/making_music_during_the_sars-cov-2_pandemic.pdf

Commenter 6: gaslighting