I’m so glad that people are standing up and speaking out against the tyranny and corrupt dictatorship of Trudeau. We have to go the Americans for help. Go Canadians go!
Another view of the demonstration against Trudeau:
Tom: Send Justin Castro TurdDough to GITMO!!! abetting and aiding evil sickos
Tom: Big turn out with Norm Traversy today, awesome!
Thaddeus MacThomas (former infantry veteran in the Royal Canadian Regiment) serving Trudeau notice.
Emily: “Tag Donald Trump?”” As a GOOD guy????
me @Emily: Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.
Emily @me: H, do you believe in QAnon?
me @Emily: While I know of QAnon, I haven’t followed them and I believe that I have never mentioned QAnon on my timeline ever.
Emily @me: Good to hear H. They are a right wing conspiracy theory group
Shelley: What specifically makes Q anon right wing?
Emily @Shelley: when you trace it back, its right wing extremists backing it.
Emily *2: WTF!!!
Emily *2: I would far rather have Elizabeth May than Justin Tudeau, but TRUMP??? Are you kidding me???
me @Emily*2: Kevin O’Leary also doesn’t think Trudeau is fit for governance.
Emily *2: Kevin O’Leary is a dick
Emily *2: I am not a Trudeau fan, but Kevin O’Leary is a bigoted dick.
me @Emily: Good to hear your opinion. I haven’t listened to Kevin O’Leary until today.
Emily *2 @ me: My advice is, don’t, H.
I notice you seem very drawn to right wing conservative politicians. I’m curious about this because you seem to be a rather loving, caring type of person, who wants less violence and more care in the world.
Why are you drawn towards these right wing men who are about cutting social support services and hoarding wealth away from their citizens, making the rich richer and the poor, poorer? Taking medical care away from those who need it? Support from peole with disabilities? From single mothers? From children?
You seem to be very drawn to male conservative leaders who don’t seem very connected to their hearts at all, and who seem to be at least acting, in quite a heartless manner. I wonder about why this draws your interest and alignment when it seems so contrary to your values as a feminist, compassionate, kind and spritual person.
Colleen @Emily*2: I echo your questions and comments.
Emily *2 @Colleen: Thank you C. I hope I’m not being too confrontational. I just don’t understand the appeal of these “tough guy” leaders, who seem to lack any compassion whatsoever.
Emily *2: They often claim identities as “Christian” but.. don’t act like Jesus would, that’s for sure!
me @Emily*2: As I mentioned in one of our earlier threads, I place high importance in freedom. Without freedom, nothing else is possible.
Trudeau definitely is not operating in the interests of the freedom of Canadians. Trump is operating in the interests of the freedom of the American people.
Colleen @me: I don’t think you could be more wrong if you tried Harrison. You sound like you’re speaking straight out of a conspiracy theorist’s manifesto. Trump is a wrecking ball. Where have you been?
Emily *2 @me: Trump is operating on behalf of CERTAIN Americans. Not most of them, by any stretch. He is not fighting for the rights of his people to have health care, to have adequate wages, to have adequate food and education. He is only increasing the wealth gap, making his rich freinds richer. He only cares about rich Americans who can feed his campaign and scratch his back.
me @Colleen: Thanks for you input Chris. I’m glad to read your words after receiving an angry face response to one of my posts.
As I mentioned on another (separate) thread, the word “conspiracy” is used when one person’s words and beliefs are incomprehensible to another person’s belief system. I would make a request to you to not use the word conspiracy. And consider using I statements like: “I cannot comprehend how you could think that when I believe ….”
Let’s start with Trudeau. I’ve posted a couple things on my timeline about Trudeau’s treason to Canadians.
1. Using the Order in Council process to ram through the gun ban bill without any parliamentary discussion.
2. Tricking the NDP/Greens to agree with a special covid meeting format with reduced powers so that the next regular Parliamentary meeting won’t happen until September.
3. Buying up the Kinder Morgan TransMountain Pipeline in order to pander to his Chinese masters for their need for oil.
4. Rather than try to ameliorate the damaging effects of the secret-behind-closed-doors-Harper-brokered FIPA agreement with China, Trudeau continues to broker more trade agreements with China.
5. Trudeau does not to prevent Chinese buyout of Canadian companies, but rather encourages it I imagine.
6. Trudeau does not give multi million dollar contracts to Canadian companies, but rather to Chinese companies
7. Trudeau continues Harper’s selling of all Canada’s reserves of gold (we have 0 reserves now) and buys shares in Chinese banks
me @Colleen: In short, Trudeau is allowing and encouraging Canada to be turned into another Africa, to be used and drained dry.
Emily *2 @me: I agree he should not be pandering to China like that H.
but.. why are you concerned he banned guns? Look at the USA’s gun policy. And look at how many deaths they have had from people going postal and mass murdering. Look at the nubers of people who die from mass killings like that when there are bans on assault rifles. Hardly any! I’m glad he banned assault rifles! Who needs an assault rifle! No one!
Emily *2: Trudeau is also selling out to USA
me @Emily: I posted on my timeline why I feel the Trudeau Order In Council (OIC) issued gun ban is not good for Canadians.
1. Trudeau grossly overstepped Parliamentary procedure by disallowing any Parliamentary debate. OIC is basically saying “I’m doing this and I don’t give a damn what any of you think.”
2. Canada has one of the strictest gun laws in the world (I don’t know how strict because I’m not a gun person), but it’s not easy to legally get a gun in Canada. The Canadians who do, know that it is a privilege and follow the law governing gun use and transport.
The criminals don’t follow the Canadian system to acquire a gun. They get their guns illegally (since they don’t want their guns to be traced back to them) from the States and other places.
3. Waste of money to stop gun related harm. Many police associations, I believe, have said that the hundreds of millions of dollars used to buyback guns which already in the legal possession of law-abiding Canadians could be used to strengthen border patrol and other measurements to get illegal guns off the street.
Canadians who are legal owners of guns generally are not criminals and do not use those guns to commit crimes or kill. People with illegal guns do. Trudeau is wasting hundreds of millions of dollars towards an ineffective strategy to reduce gun crime and harm.
4. Canada’s current highly restrictive gun laws only allow an “assault weapon” to hold a maximum of 5 rounds. Hand guns can hold 10. Canada’s gun laws, I believe, do not allow for an assault weapon which we might see in movies, which can hold 30 rounds and more.
The recent killings in the East was from an illegally obtained gun from the States.
Emily *2: Guns kill people, H. We should not need these kinds of weapons.
Shelley: Well, no, guns are also used for hunting and survival for some people. People kill people, sometimes with guns, sometimes with other things. I was anti-gun too, but there was no reason for this move, as Harreson pointed out, the assault weapons are already banned here.
Mary @Emily*2: I was wondering the same! I was surprised to see support for Trump when all I’ve seen from Trump is as you said above.
me @Mary: Thanks for joining in the converstion M. Good to have you here. I’m dialoguing with @Emily*2 so I don’t know how I will be able to field everyone’s concerns.
Mike: H, I don’t disagree with some of the evidence you document about undemocratic actions. However, it’s wrong thinking to say anyone but Trudeau is better, or that politicians will do what they say. The system is built a certain way not for real democracy. Thinking any demogogue will fundamentally change things is unrealistic historically.
Trudeau is mostly a figurehead without a backbone. Keep in mind that fundamental change almost always comes through grounded mass movements.
me @Mary: If you want me to field any questions, please put your questions on this thread. I’m trying to keep Ellesig’s and thread, just for our dialogue.
Mary @me: No worries. They’re covering the questions I had well.
me @Mike: You’re saying that it’s wrong thinking to think that anyone but Trudeau is better (especially Trump as a better alternative) and that Trump won’t live up to his words.
I don’t think that Canada is set up as a democracy. I think it’s a corporation as listed under the US Securities & Exchange Commission.
I’m not sure which leader you’re referring to when you say demogague – Trudeau or Trump?
Any in case, you’re saying that fundamental change almost always comes through a mass movement of the people.
me: July 3, 2020: Trudeau to be investigated for ethics in participation in $900 million contract to WE charity.
The article states:
“Trudeau previously faced probes over the SNC-Lavalin affair and his family’s 2016 trip to the Aga Khan’s private island. In both cases, the commissioner found the prime minister had violated ethics rules.”
me: July 3, 2020 Michelle Rempel Garner gives us more explanation of the ethics investigation on Trudeau
me: July 3, 2020 WE charity pulls out of the $900 million contract but I think the Conservations still want the ethics investigation to go through.
Emily *3: This is one of the most blatant displays of ignorance I’ve seen, other than a Trump rally
Emily *3: Nobody wearing a mask, in a pandemic.
Emily *3: People going to be winning some Darwin awards soon and unfortunately taking out their grandparents too.
Emily *3 @me: what do you mean, “go to the Americans for help”? America is tanking under the so called “leadership” of the biggest buffoon the world stage has perhaps ever seen.
me @Emily*3: I think that the Canadians had no option to be received at Canada’s Parliament (since Trudeau tricked the Parliament not to meet until Sept), and so since the American embassy was open and receptive to receive their petition, then the protest went to the American Embassy.
Emily *3 @me: are you a “believer” in “QAnon?”
me @Emily*3: I’m a believer in unity rather than division.
Emily *3: Then why do you steer to the right, politically? The right wing faction is NOT about unity!
Emily *3: They are the most divisive.
Emily *3: Left extremism seems to be a little whacky as well.. they seem to go all the way around somehow and bump into the far right.. but they are more like “Conspiritualists”
Colleen @Emily3: Exactly
Emily *3: Just look at the Republicans. Jeezus. Rippin babies out of their mothers arms, taking the children into so called protective services, subjecting them to the sexual abuse of ICE thugs, then denying responsibility for their employees’ abuse of the children.. and deporting their parents. They could offer them some help, they could pul their drug lords out of Mexico and Columbia, and inject funds to help those communities recover. But America is profiting too much from those drug sales. It is so gross.
Colleen @Emily3: USA is the laughing stock of the whole world. dRump and the Republicans are destroying the country. Compared to that, Trudeau is a shining light, even if he isn’t perfect. In America it’s profits first. In Canada it’s people first. We’ve made mistakes, and we have a long way to go but humility helps. I’d like to see those Canadians who are busy trying to tear down the government and criticizing politicians actually do something useful with their time and energy to help those in need.
Emily *3 @Colleen: it is so hard to watch what is happening to the USA. I am very concerned for the American people. Trump is definitely the laughing stock, but he is a dangerous fool.
Colleen @Emily3: So true. So why do we have Canadians who idolize him? It baffles me.
Emily *3 @Colleen: I feel concerned about how the right wing politicians, and even so called “liberal” ones like Trudeau cater a lot to big business, increasing corporate wealth over making sure there is clean running water and adequate food on Indigenous reserves, neglecting the recommendtatins made by UNDRIP and the Stolen Sisters Report, even after they spent the money to get the report done. It’s like they only care to “look like’ they are actually giving a sh*t.
bSo, I actually feel Trudeau is more like a right wing guy too. And the NDP are more in the “liberal” zone, but also cave to industries, allowing the continual logging of old growth, when there is hardly any left at all, and allowing resource projects that place our waters at risk, allowing fish farms to continue spreading diusease to wild salmon, and shoving pipelines thorugh indigenous territories when they have no constitutinal right to do so.
Jenny @Emily*3: unfortunately it appears that H has lost his capacity for critical thinking and his grasp of reality. He has gone to the dark side – so sad to see.
me @Jenny: I’m open to hearing your view and enlightening me Joan. What does the world look like from your lens?
Colleen @Jenny: Yes, it’s very sad to see H spouting phrases and malarky from the dark side. I see no authentic data, clear scientific research, but only inflammatory comments that simply are not true.
me @Colleen: I hear that you feel that what I just posted is simply ridiculous, unsubstantiated, provocative, and has no basis in reality. Did I hear you correctly?
If so, which specific statements do you feel meet those criteria?
Colleen @me: There was no “tricking” people into not coming to Ottawa. It was a decision based on the advice of the country’s chief medical health officer: Canadians were required to “stay in place” in the early days of the pandemic.
Now is not the time to fight our own government, but to do everything possible to unite as a country to beat this virus. Now is the time to stay strong as proud Canadians, knowing that we have had one of the best results in dealing with COVID compared to most countries around the world. (USA is the worst in the world).
Now is the time to stand up for Black Live Matter initiatives. To support indigenous lives. To work together in unity to fight climate change, take care of our planet, and to take care of all the living beings on the planet.
Your energies teaming up with angry people going off on anti-Canadian tangents is ill advised. Your naivete around the harm Donald Trump has done is very, very sad. I am sorry that such a kind and loving gentleman has been co-opted by a small faction of society that are definitely on the wrong side of history right now.
I can only hope and pray that enlightenment, intelligence, sanity, and rational thought may enter your life and heart and return you to common sense. Since that’s unlikely, I will most likely have no choice but to unfriend you, as your positions and comments have become too frustrating to deal with.
me @Colleen: Thanks for taking the time and effort to clarify your feelings and viewpoint.
I think you’re saying that the suspension of Canada’s Parliament was justified in order to not spread any further infection and harm from covid.
And you value that at this crucial time, unity is especially important, not division.
I think that you’re also saying that you value movements that work for the equality and justice of the oppressed.
And that you’re frustrated that who you perceive as a kind and loving person has been so deluded to align themselves with forces that are detrimental to Canada’s wellbeing.
And to cap it off, that I might see some good in Trump is the final straw to unfriend me.
Thank you for your participation. I value you as a person and know that you are a caring person.
Emily *3 @me: would you feel more comfortable answering my questions in private message?
me @Colleen: If it’s alright with you, I’d like to continue using the FB platform to address your concerns. It is educational for all who view the thread. And it gives me a record of what I said and how I dialogued in my communication.
Emily *3: Ok great, I totally agree it is helpful for others to learn. Would you mind responding to my questions? I would like to understand. Thank you.
Emily *3 @me: I am not sure if you are having a busy day or just taking your time to be sure of your feelings before you respond. I hope this is the case, because it is starting to feel like you might be avoiding my questions, about how you can reconcile your compassionate heart, and wish for all beings to be treated with care and respect, and Trump’s human rights abuses.
This concerns me, because I believe that why people commit, and tolerate human rights abuses such as those being perpetrated by Trump in the US, and that have also been perpetrated here in Canada against BIPOC, is a shut down, closed, locked tight heart. A heart that is subverted to some other gain, perhaps egoic, perhaps material, but something in the wy of the fuly functioning human heart, I’m wanting to ask you about this, and bring this concept to your attention to consider, because by all accounts of you, you a re a heart centred man.
Indeed, you proclaimed this to me in another post on my own page. I need to know, how can a heart centred man turn his heart away from those who are being abused by Trump’s policies? How can your heart be so open in some circumstances and yet so shut down in these others, when there are real, precious human lives being taken, and families torn apart, in cold blood? The situation calls for an awakening of the heart into compassion. For a reorganizing of policy around that.
me @Emily*3: Sorry, I’ve been at work all day and am just getting ready for my next appointment. I will have more time this evening to devote more attention.
In the meantime, I was wondering what you thought of having a dialogue rather than a debate? I’m not so interested to debate as the “me against you” dynamic only perpetuates more of the division which is so harmful to the Canadian people at this time.
A dialogue takes more time and doesn’t have a set agenda of proving the other person wrong. I’m more interested in having a dialogue of what might be true for you and for me.
For example, when we first started communicating, I expressed that freedom was a very important value to me. Now, from our previous communications, I realize that truth is important to me also.
And in trying discovering what is true for you, then in my mind, for me to be in dialogue with you, then I communicate by:
– putting aside to some degree my views
– reflecting back to you my understanding of what you just tried to communicate to me
– being curious to find out more of what you believe and maybe even why you believe it
– not judging / labelling / criticizing you as crazy, insane, deluded, etc
– listening first and then responding when appropriate
– [edit add] using I statements when possible
Those were my thoughts this morning upon waking, but only had a chance now to put them on FB.
Let me know your thoughts.
Amy @me: Well stated
Emily *3 @me: that does sound good. how would you like to dialogue? In the chat windows as we are?
me @Emily*3: Yes, if you’re interested to dialogue with using some of the communication guidelines that I noted above, I prefer the chat format as then we can both see what the other has communicated and there won’t be any confusion about what was written (the interpretation of what was written will be variable).
Are there any other communication guidelines you would like to add to the conversations?
Emily *3: Yes, good idea. It is becoming a bit difficult scrolling so much, so maybe we could put the new chat window at the bottom of the post, and if you could repost the guidelines there and start us off when you are ready with a response to my questions, that would be good. Are you clear about my questions?
me @Emily*3: I will start a new chat. One other thing. I imagine that we will both be sending each other links to back up our view.
I request that we in good faith, read and/or listen to the links provided before we post a response.
me @Emily*3: And we take one issue at a time, and come to some agreement that the dialogue feels relatively complete for the issue, before introducing a new issue (if we’re still up to continue dialogue).
We can take turns choosing the issue to dialogue about.
Emily *3 @me: sounds good.
me @Emily*3: One other request: For everyone’s readability, would it be possible to use SHIFT-ENTER to introduce paragraph marks?
I find that having a line break between written thoughts, makes the text much easier to read.
me @Emily*3: Also, how do you find about adding the guideline of no name calling?
Emily *3 @me: sure thing
Emily *3 @me: yes I agree. No calling Trump or anyone else a dick.
Emily *4: America needs some serious help.
Colleen *4: Good. Grief. Don’t like Canada… Move to the USA.
Emily *4 @Colleen*4: Yeh.. and good luck!.
Jenny *4: H, you have lost your mind, and all my respect. I feel sorry for you.
me @Jenny*4: Which thoughts are incomprehensible to you J?
Colleen *4: I feel the same way, J. I am very sad to say I agree. I’m sorry H – my respect for you has gone completely.
Gary: Crazy how susceptible “spiritual” people are to conservative propaganda, eh?
Emily *4 @me: look how great Trump is and how much he cares for his citizens:
Emily *4 @me: How can you say he is a good leader when he is doing things like this, H
me @Emily*4: I don’t think ACA is a black and white issue. It doesn’t benefit who you’d think it would benefit. Here’s some of the comments from that article:
“Obamacare’s five year implementation prevented any discussion of M4A for eight years, and M4A is an issue now only because Bernie talked about it. If Trump, the Republicans, and the SCOTUS kill Abominablecare, we’ll be back to square one, to a clean slate and a fresh start, and Medicare-for-all may then get enough popular support to pass.
This will be the question for the people of the US : Do you want lipstick or health care?
P.S. – Should we call M4A Berniecare ?!”
“This could be a good thing. Biden is still clinging to “makiing ACA better” as his pro-insurance-industry campaign mantra. But the ACA is a terrible program and always has been, a giant wet kiss for the health insurance industry, whose share values rise and fall on the stock market in inverse relationship to presidential and Republican efforts in Congress to destroy or weaken it. “
“Couldn’t afford insurance before passage of the ACA and can’t afford it now. Perhaps if they put the Abominable Care out of its misery they pass M4A.”
“The Medicaid expansion was long overdue and has saved and improved thousands of lives despite not being implemented in some states. The rest of the law should be discarded. Neoliberal high deductible private insurance with unaffordable cost sharing and balance billing is a monstrosity and if Trump wants to destroy this I am all in.
We need, we must have something better especially in a pandemic. All that nonsense about Barrack Obama’s “signature” “landmark” “achievement is growing old when faced with the reality of more and more medical bankruptcies. The left needs to realize that except for the medical expansion they have been had by the Heritage Foundation and other right wing think tanks.
There is a reason Republicans have kept their distance from this unaffordable, unworkable scheme to allow insurance companies to sell worthless insurance and then force patients, many of whom are sick and dying to come up with most of the cash or have their net worth destroyed with unpayable loans.”
“In order to ‘make the ACA better’ the private medical insurance Gods needs to be happy with a drastic drop in their profits. And I do not see that happening. Those monsters have not had to do a bloody damn thing but stomp their bashing-boots hard on our heads to make us behave and deny healthcare.
I had ACA insurance the year prior to my medicare kicking in and it was great except the carrier in OR one day sent out letters saying they were done, profits taking a hit and they could not’ SURVIVE’ the onslaught of being good providers of insurance anymore. No warning, no advice. Just screw you very much.
Does anyone really believe they will act responsibly now because olJoe asks nicely?”
“I would like to speak to a human being within Bernie’s organization and let them know that Bernie withheld an important piece of information that makes me think he was a plant.
Why did Bernie and his other surrogates pretend that the GATS trade agreement doesnt exist, in order to lead us into a trap where instead of getting a single payer system, we lose Medicare and Social Security?
I challenge them to answer that. I would like to interview them for my blog, Policy Space dot xyz about this deceptive marketing of a false simulacrum within which we are still in 1992 before the WTO was created. bernie goes to great lengths to never mention GATS. Blogs are all hiding GATS. This is so millions of US jobs can be outsourced before we realize it. All the crown jewels of the nation arer being stolen and Bernie is part of the crooks, not the good guys.
There are no good guys in this government unless they tell the truth, not more lies.
They are all crooks.
He’s assisting in their hiding of their crime.”
“You seemed to have missed the point and that is by caucusing with the Democrats about 98% of the time Sanders loses all credibility for trying to make people think that he is an independent. Sanders cannot have it both ways. He is either an independent or a Democrat. He certainly cannot be both.
The Democrats also overwhelmingly passed the infamous four trillion dollar stimulus package which greatly benefited major corporations while giving very little to the working class and the poor. Sanders remained mute concerning the Democrats servility to power and that is because when the Democrats say jump Sanders responds by asking: How high?
Trying to reform the Democrats from within, which is what Sanders seems to believe, is an exercise in futility. Lance Selfa brings this out to great effect in his most insightful book called The Democrats: A Critical History.”
Emily *4: I disagree with him about Bernie
Emily *5 @me: Is this what you mean by “freedom” H?
me @Emily*5: This is what I mean. While Trudeau is pushing for online censorship, Trump is going the other way for greater freedom.
me @Emily*5: While Trudeau has pledged $850 million to W.H.O., Trump has pulled out of WHO.
Emily *5 @me: People are being brainwashed by BS such as QAnon, and tons of misinformation about all kinds of things. Fake news is a huge problem. There needs to be some way of verifying things are true. So many people do not think critically, and believe anything they read on the internet. Disinformation should be removed. This is not the same as censorship.
me @Emily*5: While the Democrats keep the churches closed, Trump wants to open them, so people of faith can gather again.
Emily *5: Yes, and I believe Trump is an idiot for doing so.
me @Emily*5: Why do you think that?
me @Emily*5: @”Disinformation should be removed. This is not the same censorship.”
I wish we could remove the disinformation of Neil Ferguson’s Imperial College vastly incorrect models, the vastly incorrect Tedros estimated 2.2 million covid deaths, and all the other disinformation from so called health organizations.
Emily *5 @me: it is more evidence he doesn’t care about the American people. America is currently being devastaed by the COVID-19 pandemic. I’m sruggling to understand how so many people don’t see to understand that it is dangerous to gather in enclosed psaces in many communities, because of he likelihood that it will spread COVID and kill people.
Here is just one example. There are many more:
Emily *5 @me: We need the WHO. We need to be able to have global health srategies to manage situations like this pandemic, and the health impacts of climiate change.
Trump is a fool for cutting their funding. He did not take the pandemic seriously at first, and is blaming the WHO for it. He is not fit to be in power. He is psychologically disabled.
Emily *5 @me: wow, again you are veering off to the right wing/republican/conservative trip.
Emily *5 @me: I’ve asked you some questions that you are apprently not comfortable answering. I have trouble understanding why you gravitate towards these neo fascist leaders, if you’re such a compassionate and kind guy. You haven’t explained that to me.
me @Emily*5: Left or right, I don’t look at it that way. It’s the way that make sense to my worldview, my values, and my intuition.
It’s obvious, as with any two people from differing experiences, that we have different viewpoints.
I’m open to listening to you explain your viewpoints, without labelling them as left/right/conspiracy/insane/etc.
If you’re still interested to dialogue, I will continue to provide you with my reasons of my worldview. You are most welcome to continue asking.
For now, I must get to bed. Work beckons in a few hours.
Emily *5 @me: I’d love to hear your response to my question about why you feel so drawn to clearly discompassionate leaders. Is that a label? Actions speak for themselves.
Drumpf is committing human rights abuses and endangering his people for the sake of his ego and his rich friends. Let me know what you find so appealing about that, when you get a chance. I’ll wait. Goodnight.
Shelley: Oh boy, I actually support H in not wasting his time on answering your condescending questions.
Emily, you have no openness, from what I can tell, to different viewpoints and perspectives. You’ve made your judgments and labels and there doesn’t actually seem to be any real curiosity except for “why don’t you think like me”?
Honestly, I used to think like you too, but I’ve had an open mind and questioned mainstream media and I’ve come to see that most of what I believed about Trump was false. I’m not saying he’s a great guy, but I do think it’s possible that he’s not controlled by the criminal syndicate that is controlling Trudeau and is actually harming more children than you even know.
Perhaps start with “everything is a rich man’s trick” on YouTube, if you’re actually interested in what is going on behind the scenes. This is not about left or right wing, this is about a small group of elite who are taking away our human rights and freedoms and enslaving us.
If you want to shut your eyes and walk complacently into slavery, please do so. But no need to bully and name call those of us who are resisting.
Emily *5: With all due respect Shelley, you have every right to your views but I believe you are being fooled into a cult like mentality.
The things H is saying just don’t add up. I’m sorry to hear you are getting lost “down the rabbit hole.” Pless don’t believe everything you see on YouTube. People are making money off you and all your views and “viral” sharing.
Colleen *5 @Shelley: Where are you getting your opinions from? What news sources do you read? There is no bullying going on here, but curiosity, and also incredulity about lines of thinking that have no factual verifiable base. All so fascinating!
Emily *5: He’s such a great guy. So caring:
Emily *5: did you see the above?^^. How do you feel about the way he is treating those people?
Colleen *5: Trump’s actions are despicable.
Emily *5: Please read this. You guys are being had :/
Julia: Please do not support men in power that leave children in concentration camps and tries to build walls on racist pedestals and fans hatred. My family lives in WA and New York and their lives have completely changed due to the negligence of Trump.
There are so many things wrong with him and he is the last person we need help from. What he stands for is not the truth… he is not a good person, he does not stand for the American people. Many are suffering from his actions and words, not just in the US but in the world.
me @Julia: I value your participation. I can try to address your other concerns. I’m not clear on what you’re saying about “build walls on racist pedestals and fans hatred.” Do you have some specific words and actions that Trump did so I can have a context of what you are referring to?
Dean: bad hombres…….. kung flu….. and of course “You Don’t Want to Live With Them Either”
Colleen *5: Every single day with every action he has taken, Trump has demonstrated hatred and divisive behaviours. New York Times. Washington Post. The Guardian. BBC News. The Wall Street Journal. CNN. NPR. NBC. The Atlantic. There are hundreds of thousands of examples. His Twitter account alone is one of the most hateful and divisive tools in his tool belt and it’s used daily.
Emily *5 @Dean: are you referring to Trump’s blatant racism?
me @Julia: Thanks for joining us Jen. I hear that you’re concerned about the welfare of those immigrant children trying to come into America.
As I was dialoguing with Ellesig Ekmeur about Obamacare, things are not so black and white. In this case of the cages, did you know that it was Obama’s administration (perhaps in 2015) that build those cages?
Emily *5 @me: Yes, Obama had a very conservative Republican senate, and he was pushed ito a few of these shitty programs. He managed to do some good work while in office, but his ass was at least half owned by the Republicans. Also, he actually never filled the cages. Those cages were EMPTY. Untill.. your good buddy, Trump.
Colleen *5: The more important fact is that Trump FILLED those cages with innocent children. The important fact is that those cages are STILL FILLED with innocent children. All I’m seeing here is red herrings and trying to dodge the truth about Trump’s behaviour, choices and actions.
Emily *5: Yes, it is extremely disturbig to me that these human rights abuses are NOT disturbing to people. Especially people who claim compassin as a central ethic in their lives. It just doesn’t add up.
Amy: Canadian media has been overtaken by American Republican interests unfortunately. It just goes to show the power the media has on debilitating our democracy and independence from US.
The fact that a Canadian admires Trump no matter what he has done or said, and is obsessed with supposed anti-China rhetoric (doesn’t matter if they are ethnic Chinese), is almost carbon-copy what the Republican agenda wants the world over to believe in. People talk about CCP bots, but the Republican press has been churning out a lot of Trump bots
If Canadians are so interested with China’s agenda, how come they don’t care that our media is controlled by American republican interests? I’m sure if anybody did a tally, American corporations/individuals probably own 10x if not 100x Canadian assets compared to Chinese corporations.
And I find it really sad, because I know Harreson is a great guy. And other people in the spiritual community are also radicalized to the right, when I would have expected them in the past to be more enlightened, but now they all seem like Trump bots to me.
I don’t know how to break the spell that has been wrought.
me @Amy: Please have a look at the thread that Ellesig and I are dialoguing on and then you can have an inside picture of my thinking process.
If you have any question, please put it on this thread.
Emily *5: Amy thank you. H Amy brings up a good point. Much of what you say seems actually quite scripted, exactly what Trumpster groups are churning out. It has me wondering if you are listening to particular podcasts or tuned in to certain media that you may not recognize is hard right wing :/ I has a boyfriend i eventually realised whose family were listening to these podcasts and they basically went real far down this rabbit hole into a completely divergent reality, where they thought Hilary Vlinton was harvesting a substance from thr brain stems of terrified babies and marketing it and all these people were addicted to it etc etc. All about the “deep state” etc.
Emily *6: Breaking news on Trump’s escalating fascism:
Colleen *6: Very scary news.
me @Emily*6: I don’t know much about this. Looking at the vast amount of comments, pretty 99% were demonizing Trump.
Of the 2 people who weren’t, here’s their comments:
.. commenter 1 …
“because it’s actually to protect women in domestic violence shelters and their children. It’s to make sure they have their space from biological men.”
… commenter 2 …
“The new ruling by the Department of Housing and Urban Development, not Trump, allows single-sex shelters the choice to determine a person’s actual sex in order to keep their inhabitants safe.
“Under HUD’s proposed new rule, details of which were obtained by The Washington Post, operators of single-sex shelters may consider someone’s biological sex — instead of how they self-identify — in making placement and accommodation decisions.
They could “determine an individual’s sex based on a good faith belief that an individual seeking access … is not of the sex, as defined in the single sex facility’s policy, which the facility accommodates,” the proposed rule says.
A person denied entrance to a shelter on the basis of this policy must receive a transfer recommendation to another facility, the rule says. Shelter operators could also choose to continue determining someone’s sex on the basis of how the person self-identifies. But whichever approach is chosen must be applied uniformly and consistently, the rule says.”
… safety for women: …
“HUD Secretary Ben Carson had previously expressed concern about the impact on residents of female-only shelters when transgender women are allowed to share bathrooms and shower areas.
“I had heard from many women’s groups about the difficulty they were having with women’s shelters because sometimes men would claim to be women,” Carson wrote to staff in an email.”
me *7 @Emily: Thank you for being willing to dialogue with me around Trump’s actions. I hope that we do not going into this to wage a war in the “I’m right and you’re wrong” battlefield.
Rather, we acknowledge that we have different views about what is happening when it comes to Trump’s actions. This dialogue might just allow us to see how the other sees it. That we may disagree with that view is perfectly acceptable. But at least we now have a clearer picture of what the other is thinking.
And maybe that’s the best outcome for the dialogue before we decide to move onto the next issue.
Or perhaps the dialogue may even shed a new light into the old situation and plant a seed of a new possibility of looking at that situation. I think that would be a wonderful outcome, but that requires some patience and openness.
Guidelines for our dialogue and communication:
We will try to:
– put aside, to some degree, our views while reading the other’s
– reflect back our understanding of what the other just tried to communicate
– be curious to find out more of what the other believes and maybe even be curious why one believes it themselves
– no judging / labelling / criticizing you as crazy, insane, deluded, etc
– no name calling
– listen first and then responding when appropriate
– using I statements when possible
– in good faith, read and listen the (whole) link that the other has put forth to back up their view
– to not respond until one has read/listened to the whole link
Okay, that’s what I have. Let me know if I’ve missed anything or if you want to add anything.
Before I start, I would like you to know some of the values that are important to me and which inform my view:
– minimal harming
– maintenance of individual freedom, liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness without harming others
– love and compassion
– [edit add] intuition
Okay, your turn.
PS: Other folks, I’m just going to concentrate on Emily’s comments. If you want to chime in and she wants to include your concerns as part of hers, than that’s fine with me. But I probably won’t respond to your comments unless Ellesig adds them to her concerns. What do you think Emily?
Emily *7 @me*7: I think this sounds good. I have spent all day online and need to get out for a walk, but what strikes me is that I share your values. I am welcoming people’s input and sharing their views here as well. There were a few people that piped up and shared my concerns as well, so I’d like to make them welcome.
me *7 @Emily*7: Okay, have a good walk. Give me a shout when you’re back and ready. 🙂
Emily *7 @me*7: are you okay to answer my questions?
me *7 @Emily*7: Yes, are we alternating introducing issues, once we’re feel complete with one?
Emily *7: Okay, my question to you earlier was “Harreson Sito I’d love to hear your response to my question about why you feel so drawn to clearly discompassionate leaders. Is that a label? Actions speak for themselves. Drumpf is committing human rights abuses and endangering his people for the sake of his ego and his rich friends. Let me know what you find so appealing about that, when you get a chance. “
me *7 @Emily*7: My decisions are based on my values of:
– minimal harming
– maintenance of individual freedom, liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness without harming others
– love and compassion
and from research and from intuition.
When I look at Trump’s actions, then I am more drawn to him rather than the Democrat alternatives.
I have given some example of which actions Trump has done that fit within my values, research, and intuition. Actions like:
– not giving American sovereignty over to the International Criminal Court
– breaking away from W.H.O. until they straighten out their act
– allowing churches to gather again
– offering support to the Democratic governors to deal with the riots but the governors don’t accept his help
If there is a specific human right abuse that you feel Trump has committed, please let me know which specific action of his you would like me to address.
Emily *7: Thank you Harreson. It is so interesting that we share these values. I’ll repeate these, and number them for clarity (not in any significant order):
1- minimal harming
2- maintenance of individual freedom, liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness without harming others
4- love and compassion
5-and from research
6- and from intuition.
The points you have made about the things you like about Trump that are in alaignment with your stated values, again in no particular order of relevance are:
1- not giving American sovereignity over to the International Criminal Court
2- breaking away from W.H.O. until they straighten out their act
3- allowing churches to gather again
4- offering support to the Democratic governors to deal with the riots but the governors don’t accept his help
I would like more information/explanation about your first Trump statement, #1. What do you mean about the international criminal court? This is a confusing statement to me.
Your Trump point number #2 about Trump breaking away and pulling funding from the WHO.. What do you mean, “straighten out their act?”
…Trump pulling the funding is in my opinion, risking compromising your stated values #1, because witholding funding could without medical advances in research labs and medicine, costing lives, and could also place other nations in a tough spot with their COVID infection rates.
…Value #5 could be being directly violated as well, as he is withdrawing funding from an organizatin that has a mandate in response to medical scientific research.
Your Trump Point #3, allowing churches to gather again, I feel is a very foolish move, because of situations where the coronavirus-19 was spread to a lot of church goers, and cost the lives of several people. See an example here: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6920e2.htm
I see this Trump point again as at cross purposes to your ststed values of #1, in that it is inflicting hard by subjecting people to risk fo covid, even if it upholds a form of “freedom,” it does not satisfy the condition of freedom without causing harm. There is har caused. Scientific and medical research shows this, and this is why the CDC has been recommending masks, physical distancing, etc. #3 is also violated because Ttrump is denying the truth of the risk, as thoroughly backed up in the research.
Your Trump point #4 I don’t understand and will have to ask you to explain this further. What do you mean by this?
me *7 @Emily*7: Thanks for the reflection and the query. From what I understand the International Criminal Court is some body related to the United Nations and tasked with bringing to justice war criminals.
If a country agrees to abide by the ICC jurisdiction, then the ICC has legal jurisdiction in that country and can execute legal actions in that country.
US has never agreed to be under or accept the jurisdiction of the ICC. There’s lot of criticism of the ICC. They’ve had billions of dollars of budget over the last 10-12 years, and they’ve only prosecuted 4 folks or so.
For example, let’s look at this 2013 report by Catherine Gegout. The International Criminal Court: limits, potential and conditions for the promotion of justice and peace, Third World Quarterly, 34:5, 800-818, DOI:10.1080/01436597.2013.800737
On page 806/9:
“The ICC is a legal body, supposedly concerned with justice, and not politics. However, the Court can have considerable political impact because it has significant independent power.
The chief prosecutor can initiate an investigation on the basis of a referral from any state which is party to the ICC, or from the UNSC acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations.
In addition, the prosecutor can initiate investigations proprio motu, on the basis of information received from individuals or organisations about crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court. The prosecutor has done this twice since its creation: in Kenyaand in Ivory Coast.
The ICC does not work consistently according to the principles of international law, and it does not always appear fair. The Court chooses its prosecutions strategically, following criteria of its own. The ICC has to decide whether it will be more effective to pursue one case, and see the person indicted, judged and imprisoned, than to investigate many cases where evidence is limited and successful prosecution uncertain.
The procedure used by the ICC can sometimes yield controversial results.The prosecutor uses the jurisdictional threshold of gravity: only serious crimes are investigated. But s/he does not follow his/her own threshold consistently. For instance, in the DRC those investigating the crimes of Thomas Lubanga found evidence of torture, pillage, rape and enslavement, but as this evidence was insufficient, a decision was made to focus only on child soldiers.”
“The Court has targeted some individuals, but neglected others equally well known for their violence and crimes. For instance, in the DRC, the ICC has not indicted Laurent Nkunda, leader of the rebel group known as the National Congress for the Defence of the People (CNDP) in Eastern Congo. In Kenya the ICC investigation is not considered fair by everyone, as the ICC prosecutor does not appear to be investigating the worst offenders, but rather those who are easily apprehended.”
There’s a bunch more examples in the report, I believe. No need to read the whole report. Just the above is sufficient.
Emily *7 @me*7: okay I will try to look into that more deeply. what about the rest of my points?
me *7 @Emily*&: I will do my best to answer all your questions. Regarding #2 and the WHO, Trump’s letter mentions about 12 concerns he has, mainly around WHO’s handling of coronavirus and China.
He mentions how in 2003, under Director General Harlem Brundtland, the handling of SARS1 was handled much more effectively.
I think that you’re saying this is a foolish move as needed medical facilities will not be getting the funding needed to find an effective vaccine for SARS2, delayed vaccines would cost some people their lives, and also result in increased SARS2 infection.
I acknowledge that you feel a vaccine is one of the necessary solutions to SARS2 and that you value human lives.
In terms of treatment, I feel differently as there are already effective SARS treatments available:
– combination of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin
– vitamins C/D and zinc
– low radiation dosage therapy
If you want links to some studies, I can provide those at a further date.
Vaccines have side effects, sometimes quite serious. Their efficacy is questionable. Hydroxychloroquine, vitamins C/D, zinc not so much. Thus fulfilling my value of minimal harm.
me *7 @Emily*7: Regarding WHO and research, I think that you’re saying the WHO is an effective medical research organization that needs funding for their valuable work which is saving lives.
In my research, I don’t think I could really find any proof of that. Do you have any?
me *7 @Emily*7: With #4 Trump offering Democrat governor and mayors help, this is speaking to the riots in the various cities. For example, Seattle’s CHAZ.
Trump didn’t barge in there with the National Guard on his own perogative. He asked the Washington Democrat governor and mayor, if they needed his help, all they had to do was tell him, and he would send the National Guard in. They declined his offer, I believe.
The same with the other Democratic governed cities where there were fires, looting, etc.
The Democrats had their reason to decline. Trump didn’t force the issue, I believe, and left it to their jurisdiction.
In my mind, some intervention of protective force was needed to reduce the damage caused by the rioters. I believe, that they were allowed to roam free and do what they will. Trump offered to minimize the harm with the assistance of the military.
Trump introduced a law to stop the destruction of the historical statues, again with the intention of minimizing harm.
I’m not 100% clear on my details, so feel free to correct me on any point.
Emily *7 @me*7: Hi H, here is a response to the question of physical distance being an important aspect of preventing the spread of COVID-19:
Emily *7 @me*7: Hi H, here is an Amnesty International piece documenting the horrific police violence against BLM protesters. The did not get to just wander around, there were so many oeaceful protests that were met with violence.
Emily *7 @me: hydroxyhloroquinine actuallyincreases death rates:
me *7 @Emily*7: Regarding Dr Mehra’s hydroxychloroquine study, I believe that has been retracted and Dr Mehra has apologized.
Emily *7: Here is some footage, of BLM protesters who are rightfully angry about the murder of Elijah McClain, and all the other murders of BIPOC peole at the hands of police. They are shouting “No justice, no peace,” to express their demand for the justice, that the killers of Elijah McClain be charged and sentenced for their inhumane killing. Tne policce purposefully hurt the peaceful protesters, who have a right to express anger over these brutal and unjust murders, and to demand justice:
Here is the story of what happened to beautiful Elijah:
Emily *7 @me*7: Interesting about the hydroxychloroquine. I guess it has not been long that it’s been used and thats really good if it helps to treat it.
me *7 @Emily*7: Dr Didier Raoult’s study on the use of hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and zinc, I believe, still stands sound and shows the effectiveness of the combo pack.
Emily *7 @me*7: Regarding the police violence, the whole point of the protests is that police have been using inappropriate force, and literally murdering people of colour. That is not okay.
For Trump to want to crack down on protesters is not the right response. The right response would be to acknowledge that thee is a huge problem with police officers murdering citizens like this, and address the problem.
Respond ti the clear need to reack down on white supremacy in the police forces. Why does Trump not do it? He is a white supremacist, or at least, a very good buddy of the KKK. Here is a New Yorker magazine story covering the relatinship between the Drumpf famkily and the KKK:
me *7 @Emily*7: If you’re saying that police brutality needs to be stopped, I would agree with you. Corruption being prevalent in many areas of life, there will be the small number of cops that aren’t hesitant to use excessive force when it’s not needed. Those officers need to be reprimanded, retrained, or fired.
There are certainly cases of tragic deaths caused by police forces. How to ameloriate this harmful situation? I don’t have an answer to that. Do you?
Emily *7 @me*7: yes. The “Golden State Killer” committed his crimes while getting paid as a police officer. There are known white supremacists in the po,ice forces, and have been for years.
We need to have in depth psychological screening for officers, require a full four year degree of education and training instead of a mere 8 months, restrict their functions to dealing with situations of violence only, and ensure there are undercover officers on police forces to search out corruption, abuse of power, inappropriate force, sexual predation, and fascist ideologies.
me *7 @Emily: